ABOUT THIS EPISODE
Welcome to another Revenue Champions cold calling special. This episode is being hijacked by Josh Braun, Founder @Josh Braun Sales Training and Ryan Reisert, Founder @Reisert Consulting. They will be putting Cognism’s Joe Harlowe to the test by challenging him to cold call prospects live, whilst giving actionable training tips along the way.
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/cognism/message
Episode 1 · 9 months ago
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Episode 1 · 9 months ago
25: Cold Calling Live #2 (with Josh Braun, Founder at Josh Braun Sales Training and Ryan Reisert, Founder at Reisert Consulting)
ABOUT THIS EPISODE
Welcome to another Revenue Champions cold calling special. This episode is being hijacked by Josh Braun, Founder @Josh Braun Sales Training and Ryan Reisert, Founder @Reisert Consulting. They will be putting Cognism’s Joe Harlowe to the test by challenging him to cold call prospects live, whilst giving actionable training tips along the way.
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/cognism/message
Hello and welcome to another revenue champions cold collinge special. My Name is David Bentham and I'm excited to announce that today's episode is being hijacked by sales experts Josh Braun and Ryan Sett. They'll be putting coldnism's very own Joe Hollow through the paces with some lifecold calling and training. Thank you for tuning in and I hope you enjoy this very special episode of Revenue Champions. Hey, everybody, all right, this is going to be a really, really exciting time. You got something special for you here today, something that I have never seen done. We're going to be cold calling some prospects live, so I'm calling Campbell. I'm just host today. Not much for me. We're joined by three very brave people. Josh Brown's here. If you know Josh Josh Brown, he's founder Josh Brown sales training. Recently created a new thing called a tongue tied sales objection flash cards. Really cool way to practice handling objections. Josh, thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. We always have a good time. Ryan Reiser's here. He is the founder and student of sales at Rice or consulting. Thanks for being here. Ryan. I'm excited. This could be a lot of fun. It's some really cool things talk about with you. To phone ready me. Is a couple other things in there and then man of the hour. Everybody dropping applause in the chat for Joe Harlow. Joe is a sales development representative from cognism and JOE is out on the plank with no safety net. Today he's cold calling his real prospects live with real script that he's really using to really try to set some meetings and selves and townism. So this is like super exciting. Haven't done this before and very, very brave, Joe. Thank you so much for being willing to do this for the sale tecer community. We're glad you're here. Thanks to having me. Really appreciate it. Not Real to be I heard he's also he also like bungee jumps, so this pales in comparison to that, I suppose, but brave for sure. True. Yeah, probably a little less butterflies in the stomach now than that Bundee jumping. Well, that will left to ask. What's this is over? Which one was more terrified? Yeah, please the ends. I'm ready to go. We're ready to go. Let's do it. This is a guy who climbed a really high mountain called L Kapitan. It was threezero foot of cliff, but he did it without ropes. So you let go and you are pretty much done. Well, we are in the top that. Today we got this Guy Joel. He is going to be doing some cold calling without a net, so live cold calls. You're going to actually hear both sides of the call, and that's what we're going to get to. But first I got a pop quiz for everyone. Imagine for a second you're like Joel for a while. You have to book meetings with people and it's the end of the month and you're not doing too well. You're a little behind quota. You cold call a prospect. If you book a meeting with them, it's worth like five points. I could bring you back up in contention. You make the call, the prospect picks up and says I can't talk. You caught me at the gym. Question is, what do you say? When I asked this question on link in several months ago, got a close to Fiftyzero views and almost two hundred people responded, and responses fell into two buckets. One is what I call a pressure based response, meaning the salesperson was trying to ask for something, mostly time when it can I call you back? Can you call me back? Can I steal thirty seven seconds to talk right now? And the other response was no pressure, which means they weren't asking for anything, they were staying in the moment. So I'm going to show you some responses and you tell me if their pressure based responses or no pressure based responses. So here's one from someone. Looks like you're heart at work. Looks like I'm catching it a bad time. I'll go ahead and send a calendar invite this afternoon. Does that work better for you? That a pressure based response or no pressure? WHAT ARE PEOPLE SAYING IN THE COMMENTS COLUMN? Most people in the common saying pressure. A couple no pressures in there because they have a pressure, because the definition of pressure is I'm asking someone,...
I smell this Sammell of sales. I smell the meeting. Right I'm trying to ask for the meeting. Question is what's causing the pressure? The cause of the pressure is commission breath. We all, as salespeople, are paid to be able to book meetings and when we are paid to book meetings. Prospects can smell that on our breath. The problem is we are selling in a linear process. We're trying to get people from point a to point B, we're trying to get them to meet with us and we're trying to get him to buy. The challenges when we're reaching out to people, they're not on a straight line. They're kind of all over the place and we're calling at the very beginning and because we're moving faster than the prospect is ready to move, they feel the pinch, they feel the pressure and whenever people feel sales pressure, they pull away. I'll prove it to you. Actually, imagine that you're in them all and you're taking a walk and one of those Mall Kiiosk people turns to you and says hey, it can ask you a question. If you're like most people, you'll look away and you'll pick up the pace and walk a little faster because you're afraid of the pinch. You're afraid that if you agree to the question, you're going to be sold some c scrub that you probably don't need. The headline to this is that on a cold call, contrary to what you might believe, talking people into things doesn't work because of the pressure talking people in the thing actually has the adverse effect. You tell a teenager, hey, you should really stop smoking because of x, Y and Z, they're going to actually smoke more. Tell Ryan to stop drinking beer because it's bad for him, he's going to have more beers in did before. It's actually called the backfire effect. That's how humans are wired and and oddly enough, as salespeople, were doing the opposite. We're trying to talk them into stuff. So what I want to talk to you about today is a different approach, a way out, if you will, that actually changes your intent. It's a small mindset shift. Instead of having an intent to actually book a meeting, because when you're thinking I got a book a meeting at all costs, I say things like I'll call you after you're done the gym, I'll book a meeting with you in fifteen minutes. You actually behave in ways that are saelsie and manipulative and gross, and when prospects feel the pinch and the push, they pull away. So you're going to detach from the outcome. That's what we're going to be doing today during this call. What do I mean by that? It's really to set a different purpose for the cold call. It's to reduce the pressure in things that you're saying and how you're saying it, so that you actually create an environment where prospects can trust you because they sense you don't have an ulterior motive to get the meeting, that your only motive is to get to the truth behind every conversation you have with a prospect, which is one of two things. Yes, they'd like to continue talking with you, or know they don't at this time, and it's okay either way. Let me actually show you a little clip from Seinfeld that reinforces what it feels like, what a detached mindset feels like and what it embodies. Take a listen, Cherrie. Yes, I've been doing a lot of thank you. Ah Huh. Well, I don't think we should see each other anymore. That's okay, that's fine, no problem, I'll my somebody else. Sure see things always even out for me the time. Anyway. It's been really nice dating you for a while and good luck. So you're going to see during this approach that we're going to be going through and Joe Calls We've been working on. This is Joe's going to be a lot like Jerry Seinfeldt. He's kind of not caring too much, like he knows that there is this concept called conversations, not a conversation. It's about having conversations, not focused on a conversation.
And oddly enough, when you are okay with not booking a meeting and you realize that you actually don't control other people, you can't create the motivation, you actually aligned with it. Oddly enough, some interesting thing happens when you detach. You actually get to more truth because prospects don't feel like you have an ulterior motive. You actually end up having more conversations because prospects can sense that you don't have your best interest before theirs. You actually chase less, you actually have smaller pipelines, but the deals that you have actually closed and you actually have a higher cloths rate because you're not babysitting opportunities in this land of I'm not sure. I'm just chasing, because prospects are afraid to get back to you because they know if they do, you're going to sell them. The Best Reps that I know actually have smaller pipelines, not fatter pipelines, because they don't waste time and they don't burden themselves with babysitting. Opportunities in that are not going to close. So that's a little bit on mindset. Let's actually now shift to what to say. When tasked with what to say, I have to start with the story and you tell me the moral of the story and what this has to do with cold calling. It's probably the most important thing in this whole Webin are. Several years ago, I'm in the mall with my wife. I did not need anything, I was just there keeping her company. I walked into a fit to run store just to kill some time. If the store so she had said what brings you in today, I would have said nothing. If she said can I help you, I would have said No. But she didn't say any of those things. Instead, she looked out at my sneakers. She said are you a runner? I said yes, she said what distance? I said I'm training for a marathon and she said have you ever had a running gate test? And moments later I'm on a treadmill. She freezes the frame and she said you noticed how your ankles are pronating? They're actually overpron eating, and I go yeah, I do see that, and then she said, did you know that if you're running sneakers that are not made for pronated feet, you can get injured on long distance runs? And if you'd like, I can take a look at your sneakers to see if they're made for pronated feet? And about six minutes later I'm spending a hundred eighty fucking dollars on new sneakers and insuls. The moral of the story, of course, and the thing that pieced my curiosity, is the cost of inaction. What terrible, no good, very bad thing happened to your prospects if they do nothing? Not about your value proposition, not about faster sneakers. I got sneakers. All of your prospects are running and sneakers today. In order for you to have the best chance at getting someone's attention, you have to do something that they don't know, that can hurt them. What does doing nothing cost? I call it poking the bear, which is essentially what that Rep did in the shoe store. She asked me a question that was difficult to answer. She'd made me think differently about my sneakers. She got me to scratch my head and think, I'm not sure. So let's talk about how to do that. The step one is understanding what doing nothing cost your prospects. If they just did things the way they were doing it. What would that cost? Let me give you an example with regards to cognism, because that's what we're going to be cold calling to sell today, and I always like to think of this as before and after. Sales is all about the contrast. It's all about the before and they after. So let's actually use a visual to describe this. So on the left hand side, if people are not using cognism, they got a bunch of accounts that they are prospecting into and they all look the same list of accounts and the list of prospects. And when it's up happening is these prospects, eighty six percent of the time, are looking and doing research about solving their problems without you even knowing about it. It's in visible. They're just doing it. You have no idea which ones are doing it. So when is up happening is they're doing research and they're googling some stuff and they're looking at your competitors that you even knowing it.
And look what happens to them. These accounts actually end up buying and engaging with other sales organizations without you even knowing it. So when you reach out, they say, Hey, got something for that, working with somebody already. We're in the final stages with X and so we end up losing all of these accounts for that you even knowing, but nothing you can even do about it. You don't even know which one's to call. That's the cost of inaction. Is this losing accounts to your competitors. So after cognism, this is what changes. Instead of seeing all these white circles, you're able to get x Ray Vision, able to see these red dots, and these red dots are prospects in your accounts that you've been assigned that are actually searching for terms and Google terms and doing research on terms that relate to what it is that you're selling. It shows their intent so that when you reach out to them, they're more likely to want to have a conversation with you because they're already actively shopping, and what that allows you to do is hang on them more of those people because you're talking to them first and first matters. A lot of data to suggest that the first vent are to engage in those conversations early in the sale cycle wins the deal. So now that we have this hypothesis that you have to have for your company, for your prospects, we know that before we know what their stand to lose and we are they after. Now, and only now, can we start to construct a script. So let's walk you through the script I wrote with Joe and we're going to just take you through it and then we're going to actually have joe cold call and use it on some real prospects. So this is what to say, and not only what to say, how to say it, because what you say is a small part of it. Your tonality is everything, and Joe is a master at tonality and I'll show you what I mean in a moment. So this is something called the poke the bear framework. It's got four parts to it. Each start with the letter P, permission, problem, poke, the bear, question and then a promise. So let me actually take you through it. I'm you guys probably have seen this a bunch of times before. It's a really good method to start a conversation is to ask the prospect if it's okay to talk, and the reason for that is called congruents. When people give you permission to talk. They want to hold up there into the bargain and hear you out because if they don't, it feels incongruent. It's no different than you saying I'll pick someone up at five and you don't show up, it feels bad. So that's the psychology behind the permission based opener. That's why it's happening. There are literally thirty two ways to do this. I have an ebook that's for free on my linkedin profile. You can go grab it. Everyone has their favorites and these are three that Joe and I kind of looked at and they all have the same thing in common. They're asking for mission. So option one. Hey Joe, John, my name is Joe. I'm calling on a recorded line. moment. Not, Hey Joe, this is John. I we've never met, but I'm hoping you can help me out for a moment. Notice, that's a lot of UPTOWNE. It's kind of like straight and almost like a downtowne. Right. So, Hey John, we've never met, but I was hoping you can help me out for a moment. Hey John, I'm Joe. Calling on a recorded line or we've never met, but I was hoping to speak with you briefly. I do you have two minutes? Not Do you have two minutes. So I'm going to roll play this with Joe. I know he picked one of his favorites here and now we're just going to roll play. I'm going to pick up, I'm going to be John A. Hi, this is John. Hey, John, I'm Joe, according on a recorded line. We've never actually met, but I was hoping you could help me out for a moment. God, I love that accent, Ryan. Don't you love that accent? Isn't that a killer accent? Don't you wish you had that, Ryan, for imagine what you would do were on a few of that accent. Oh Man, I mean so, notice. Notice how Joe was real like calm leaning. I caught leaning back, because he's okay, if the prospect doesn't want to talk, we'll just...
...go to the next call. There's going to be about fifteen or twenty percent of the people that are just adverse to getting on a cold call, even if they're ve piece of sales and they have outbound teams. We're not here to it's not your job to change their mind. You don't control of the people. We're just going to accept that in a very calm way, like a golfer. We're just going to go the next hole. So a percentage of those people are going to say sure, how can I help you, and then we're going to go to the next P which is problem. We've got a couple versions of this that we're going to test out to see which one feels better. The first one sounds like this. Thanks. Reason that I'm calling is that we're hosting an event on a little known method, well known way to lower the risk of losing deals to your competitors. So I was hoping that I could ask you a question to see if this might be relevant. Would that be okay? Now, psychology here on this idea of hosting an event. This is not a Webinar. This is a one on one event for a prospect, but it's educational rather than pitching a product. We're going to show people the problem that we articulated earlier on in this Webinar, because most people that we reach out to our pitch a verse. So by a positioning this as an educational event and a learning event, it's going to be more attractive to people. It's why you're on this Webin are a lot of people like to learn stuff. We're also illuminating what they don't want, which is losing deals to a competitor, and we're also asking their permission if we can accentraally qualify them or learn at bit more about them, and we're doing that in a very succinct way around something that they stand to lose. Here's another version of that, around something that's more positive. And again they can land differently depending on who we're calling, and Joe can switch this up, which is a reason that I'm calling is we're hosting an event little known ways for sales teams to identify accounts that actually have intent to buy a product like yours over the next ninety days. So I was hoping I could ask you a couple questions to see if this might be relevant. Would that be okay? So we're going to roll play this out a little bit and sure, Joe, you cannot, you can have some time to talk what's on your mind. Thanks just the reason for my cool is that we're actually hosting an event on listle known ways to lower the risk of losing deals to competit this. So it's just hoping if I could ask you a couple of quick questions. Let's see if this might be relevant. Without being Joe, want to slow you don't want to slow down a little bit? Yep, on their notes. Nerve racking doing this live on a Webinar. Let's actually slow you down a little bit in a little louder sure. How can I help you? Thanks, Josh. The reason for my cool is that we're actually hosting an event on little known ways to lower the risk of losing deals to competit this. So I was just hoping if I could ask you a couple of quick questions to see if this might be relevant. With that be okay, okay, awesome. And notice the word might be again. These are words intentionally put in here to diffuse the pressure. Not Not assuming, not assuming, and a percentage of people will say sure. And then we're going to go to the poke the bear. We're going to ask a question that's a little difficult to answer. Hey, John, just just out of curiosity, how is your sales team identifying accounts that are actually in market for products like yours? Are they like getting in bound leads, looking at open rates to see, or are they actively able to see which accounts are researching topics that relate to your products? Chris Voss of never split the difference. Fame calls us the illusion of choice or the illusion of control. We're actually asking a question that's a little difficult to answer and we're also showing a little credibility by explaining how they're probably currently doing it and what they could be doing in see without actually pitching. A lot of people, when someone ask this question, goes, well, what do you mean by see? Because they don't exactly know what that is. That's the thing that they could be doing...
...better that they might not know about. The other thing that the multiple choice style allows people to do is make it easier to answer the question. I'm sometimes if we cut it off before that, it can be a little difficult for people to answer, but if we give them some choices, I'm it makes a little bit easier for them to answer. Or they might say it on something else or we're not doing really much. So let's actually roll play this little section with Joe Real quick and yeah, sure, sure, you can ask me a couple questions. What's up, Joe? Thank shall I read appreciate that. So just once on storm ready, how you'll sales team identifying accounts that in market for products like it was that they working off in bound leads, looking at email loop them rates, or are reps ables actually identify accounts? That activity rest etching till thiks related to products likecules? You got it now. So in this section we're going to have a conversation and we're going to use a lot of these curiosity phrases. We're doing in bound leads. You Might Mirror like a Chris Foss I inbound leads. How's that been going? How a reps prioritizing mqls sounds? You've got a great process in place. Any time we have an opportunity to positively label what the prospect is doing to make them feel good, is going to be awesome. You'll be surprised a lot of times at this point in the conversation prospects will say, well, what's this about? What do you guys do? And the question and their conversation going a lot of different ways. But eventually we'll transition into this last part, which is the promise, and it sounds something like this. You know, since you know sounds like a Chris boss label this in might this event might make sense, since you're not able to do x, you know, identify accounts that are potentially interested in speak with you again. Might be interested, potentially low a sumptive language. I know I promised to be brief. Would it makes sense, almost like you're little lost here, like what it makes sense for you to attend the event so you can review what your options are. Shouldn't need a rise in the future. Now let me explain the psychology there. It's all about reducing pressure. That's what we're doing here, is reviewing your options, not for now but should at need arise in the future. That's going to just reduce the pressure of prospects feeling that you're trying to get them the sign on the dotted line now. So these words are very intentional around reducing pressure and letting the prospect be in control of if they want to move forward or not, because ultimately, when you take the freedom of choice away, people retreat. So it's actually roleplay. This last part, Joe, we've had a little conversation and now, Joe, you're going to kind of transition into the promise. Okay, so it sounds like this event might make sense, since you're not able to identify counts that are potentially interested in speaking with you. I know I promised to be brief. Would it makes sense for you to tend the event so you can review what your uptions are? Shit, a need a rise in the future? You got it. That's the idea of there. Now, this is a script, but joe can kind of go in a lot of different directions with it. We've also practiced a lot of objections. So this is a new product that came out with called tongue tied thirty four objection flash card. We're going to actually demo a couple of these, but here let me just kind of throw one at Joe. We actually did a bunch of role plays with these earlier and we're going to throw in the semi some information one, which is a conone. We did about four or five of these, but hey, Joe, sounds interesting. I'm can you send me some information? Not a problem. What information would you like? You know, just anything about the anything about the event? Yeah, absolutely, just so I don't do you it to service and send information that might not be relevant. WOULD BE K if I just ask you a quick couple of questions. I'm just sending anything, just like any kind of general description. Okay, well, that typically John. I might be misreading here. When people say sent anything, it usually means I an interested, which is not a problem. That's who I know. You didn't ask me school. Okay, that was as a masterful job. And this is what happens when you don't practice your objections on your prospects. Joe Did a masterful job of getting out of the...
...buyer seller dance and just getting the more truth behind the objection, and the reason he was able to do that so eloquently is because he just practiced for five minutes on that particular flash card. So don't practice on your prospects plaque, practice with yourself on these flash cards. All right, let's get to it, now that you kind of have some context. This is live cold calling. So the biggest problem with cold calling is that nobody picks up the phone, but you call and nobody picks up the phone. That's especially difficult for live cold calling be like watching paint drive. Ryan over here has this new thing that allows you to actually have more conversations. Ryan, what is this thing? Phone picker upper was. What are you doing what's happening. That's my that's my eloquent segue. Yeah, well, so the end of the day, you know, I've been, like many of us in sales, trying to figure out how do you get the folks on our list to have conversations with me? And over the years I discovered that on any given list, while we think that they connect, rate is around three to five percent or cold calling and nobody picks up the phone. In reality that's not true. If you take a list and you call list, there are people who pick up and there's people who don't. So what we do here with phone ready leads is we've created a different approach that takes an average list that maybe you called pixcept every twenty, maybe fifty dials, and instead, you see today Joe will be calling and up a conversation every maybe two to six tyles. Yeah, so this is this is really interesting and this is not technology that I have to add right. This is not I don't have to add like a text doc or anything like that. Just give you the list and it comes back right. Technology. Joe Doesn't have to change his approach. Is Process. You know, you can actually double triple when tipple or sales productivity was our word, Quin tipple. Is that a word? Something like that? Okay, without without having to add additional people. So that's the that's the game here. Yeah, and so we're doing this without a net and and again, I know Colin did a nice job of, you know, talking about this at the beginning, but this is joe like. Joe Is doing this live cold calling session without a net and he's able to do this for a couple of reasons. One, the guy's adventurous, but to is also detached man like. He's going to still get the bungee jump and eat whatever happens. We're going to support Joe. We know what it's like to cold call and at the end of the day, everything's going to be okay, no matter what happens. Nobody's going to remember any of these calls when we call and life is going to go on and it's unpredictable. You're going to be hearing both ends of the call and we're going to let him call and get into the groove and if something comes off the rails or it doesn't go well, we're not going to chime in. We're just gonna let him be like a Golfer and let him go to the next call and we're going to see if I'm getting in a flow state a little bit. I'm so, Joe. I'm going to turn over to you and we're going to see how this goes. We've never done this before, so we'll be interesting to see how how this goes. WELLOW, Hey, Steve, I'm Joe Cooling on a recorded line. We've never actually met, but I was hoping to speak if you briefly. Do you have two minutes about what? Yeah, continue appreciate which other blue here? The reason for my call is that my company, cognism, is actually hosting an event on little known ways to lower the risk of losing deals to competitors. So I was hoping if I could ask you a couple of questions to see if this might be relevant. But that be okay? Yeah, I'm never really impert thank you. Okay, that's no problem, but hey, just we hang up. If I'm not to our sin too much, is it because you team don't do much prospecting or you hate getting cold calls as much as I had make them?...
You know, I don't. I don't make the decisions on what we view for training. And and or marketing and or the self training. So you would need to talk somebody out. Okay, that's stops. Not a problem. It sounds like a must confusing the wrong, wrong person and but I know it's not your job to help sales people that are lost, but would you be opposed to telling me who might be the best person to reach outseee brilliant, I think. So much for help and have a greasy day. Rank you. Okay, let's not. Let's pause for a second. They're so, Joe. So. So, a couple things there are guys. You noticed three objections came up and really elegantly. We were working on those three objections just yesterday from the flash cards and stayed in the pocket and stay in the groove and was calm. Joe. How did that feel for you? It felt really good at say so. Obviously quite a new we already went for yesterday, but it was not as I think, three months ago, when he said I'm not interested, it would have stop the conversation right there. So yeah, Ryan, what was your take on that? If you guys haven't gotten these things yet, that, I mean, he couldn't have been more scripted. That was absolutely incredible. Just staying in the pocket, staying relaxed. You know, you actually pause a little bit and allowed him to respond without continuing to talk, which is crucial, and you gathered some more information. One of the things that you might want to go for. You know, I know it's a little nerve back into his can continue to ask for some contact information, but other than that, lawless. That was fantastic job and that's how would consider I would consider that a positive. Now, that's not a meeting that booked, but that's a positive conversation because, to minds point, it's able to get a referral and now we can kind of leverage that referral and maybe a warmer introduction, because sometimes, despite this list, we could have a good message, but we're calling the wrong people, like and that's going to happen and we'd have to make the most of it. So great job, Joe. Let's keep going here. I'm so much of this to that another benefit of using Ryan Services. You can actually start to test product message fit. This is our first attempt at this message. It might be the wrong message. It's one that I wrote with the team like in a day, and so we may need some time to kind of see which one's landing and this allows us to accelerate that. It's all about experiments. This could be the wrong message. We'll see. Sometimes I find that if you put yourself in a tree post Joe, the connects happen. So it's like there's a there's a couple of benefits beyond connecting and booking meetings here. The primary one is to test message fit. So if we're calling the right people, we are not getting deep into the conversation, so we're not getting a lot of people pass part two. What that means is we have to change part too. We don't have enough connects yet to be able to come to that conclusion. But the Nice thing about this service that Ryan's offering as we can come to that faster before we start writing emails like this and sending them right. So this is our first attempt at the messaging. Once we get about ten connects or so, or fifteen connects and we know that the right people but we're falling flat apart two, we can start to make adjustments quicker. Normally that would take us maybe a month or three weeks to get to. I can actually start to change and alter the script totize some different things, but it's still a little early to tell. Yeah, I tend to. I tend to look at two, twenty connets before I start making adjustments, and you know, we should then. Okay, so a couple couple things on that. Just the guards. With regards to the role play, Joe, let's roll play the game, because I think with we skip one little part there, which is like, caught me a bad time. Hey, just so I don't do your disservice and call you back at a another awful time, I would up be okay if I stole a second, tell you why I'm calling, give you some context.
You can decide if it makes sense for me to call you back. No, no, I can. I'm running a hey, no problem. Then the three sentence thing and then get the email address. So let's actually role play that again. Just turn that in. Hey, you know, I joe, I can't talk right now. It's a bad time. I haven't not for cooling people always at bout time. Would it be a cave if I just bore a minute to give them context as to why cooled and you can stalk where it's worth. ME, Col went back last I really can. I literally have to go into a meeting in like two seconds. Okay, says are. My time is always horrible. There's not too much to us. Can I send you a free sentence email and will you get read it and let me know? It sounds interesting. Sure, I'd be happy to all right, brilliant. Thanks, Josh. What wait, what's email address? Is your email? Know, is there anyone address? Josh should act mecom. Yeah, you got it. You got it. So another another great opportunity to kind of practice that one. That's another one we practice yesterday on the call. But I also love the reaction. The Prospect Hads your opener and you deliver that really well. So a good job on that. Actually think that that one was much more natural for you. Yeah, me to se then that the natural laugh, and you can tell right away that was that was fantastic. I agree that little laughs sells it. Hey, Robert, it's Joeh and cognism one a recorded line. You're probably going to hate me because this is a cold cool would you like to hang up or roll the dice? Go ahead. Thanks. The reason for my call is that my companies actually hosting in events on this one known ways to lower the risk of losing deals to competitors. So just hoping if I could ast you a quick couple of questions to see if it might be relevant. Would that be okay? Yeah, you're calling me believing I am where prior long person does not appropriate. I mean, I'm trying to help me out here. More about lead right. Yeah, that's correct. Best. That right. Called all the kid. Okay, I can appreciate that and obviously I appreciate you. You do the right person. Is Okay if I just sawt you a couple of questions so I can tailor that outreach as much as possible. Sure, cool. So obviously no shut up sell side. How are your cell seem currently identifying accounts that in market for products like yours? You know you working heavily off an inbound model. Looking at email open rates. Really have to prove it into okay, I completely appreciate that, Robert, but all right, have a great day. He say SDR. Yes, s Dr, I think that's a you know, there's like a group emails. Yeah, we have what I'm many connects around by five or so. Joe. Well, I'll have the history. I can think like at it, but I think it is around further that six man and so this is this is really good because what we're able to do after this, after we regroup and we'll take a listen, we are some ten, ten more minutes has and if we're not getting deep into these calls, which are not really getting deep into right now, it's a really good sign to say, Hey, let's let's see if we can't change some of the part too, part of the script. This just allows us to accelerate that. But I guess it's kind of early. He's got five connects and sixteen attempts. Okay, yeah, so again conventional wisdom is successful cold calls are only about booking meetings. I'm of course that is important, but there's also other successful outcomes. I'm getting referrals because rather know that the message is and fitting on a cold call, then spin up a sequence of eight emails and wait three or...
...four weeks to spin through all those emails to determine that are response range. Allow I'd rather know now, after fifteen or twenty connects, that hey, we are calling the right people and the message just isn't landing. Let's change the message and do this again tomorrow. It's these tiny experiments. This is real cold calling. Sometimes it takes a few iterations the dial in the message. This just allows you to accelerate that and again a little early to tell. Well, let's see we can't get a few more connects, and I'm just listening to the energy to like, how how interested are people sounding and what we're saying? Well, also, you know when you are getting into snext out, Joe's getting into the flow state. Yeah, get into the flow state. Sup. We can't get one more connected for us, we'll do some Qa. Well, Brian, Hey, Brian, it's Joe from cookies and cooling on a recorded line. Listen, Brian, you're probably going to hate me because this is a cold cool would you like to hang up or roll the dice? Yeah, I think I'm good. Okay enough. I try another one's straight away. I like that. I like that. I love that opener, man, we do it really well. Yeah, it's you're NAT it. I really likery. You're very, very natural for you joke. Good, it's good. And Yeah, look, look, you're going to get we're not. It's all that other the reaction other guy had. I mean I think that's an it's a good o that's a to Ryan's point, like some openers just fit your personality better. That's why there's like thirty of them and you kind of spin through them and you see which one feels good for you. If there's always going to be one, he's gonna hang up right. Oh yeah, it's other one. Usually you're going to find the one that you're super comfortable with, but you're never going to be a hundred percent. There's no way you know, and that's okay, right. You can always call them back try another one. Okay. So I do want to I do want to save some time for some some questions and again, just that there's the kind of recap here. I know we didn't pook any meetings, so many people may be thinking about this as well. This this was not good, but again, there's a lot of ways to look at this. We learned a ton. We had six or seven conversations and if we do the analysis and say, Hey, these are the right people, but we're not getting deep. Let's go do this again tomorrow and change the message and see if we can't get to the third part of the call. We're only able to get to the third part of the call, not one time. We just were able to get past the second part, and this is what it is to be like a professional, right. We're seeing like we're going to try these four parts and we're going to see like how deep are we getting, and let's change the part one much, change the part to let's change the part three, so we can actually start to analyze on the call. Am I do want to open it up for questions, either from Joe or Colin or Ryan or myself about anything, as we have about seven or eight minutes. But I also want to say, Joe, man, this was a heroic effort by you men. I mean being able to cold call live in front of a studio audience without ropes. Men. have tip to you, buddy. Yeah, amazing, amazing job, Joe. You're getting. I don't know if you see the chat, but we're also proud of you. Yeah, YOU'RE gonna get some some outreach. Some of us to be trying to poach you. Sir. That was yeah, not most of those were Joe's family giving them. Ha Ha. We got to we got any questions calling. That was funny. We do one of the questions, and I'm going to do this when first just because I can handle that. We had a couple people asking if so, how Joe, how do they give them their money? Is basically what they're asking. And so there are also a couple other questions of where do you get the numbers? Some people aren't given numbers or phone lists. COGNISM is the answer. COGNISM can provide you contact data for people who are actually actively looking for solutions like yours right now. So it's not just a list based on demographic match, it's a list of people who are actually interested in what you sell, and so I highly recommend checking out cognism. Also, the sponsor...
...this Webin are close friends and seal attacker. They're great for Josh. A couple people, mark earlier, pointed out that in the opening of that script there are two asks. There's a I was hoping I could and then would that be okay, and there was a small but polite debate in the chat that those two asks make the collar feel seem kind of weak or ruined. that he called it equal business stature. What's your take on that? Yeah, so I could definitely see that the intent behind it is to ensure that the prospect feels like they're in control and that we're not taking away their freedom to choose. So I'm giving them the ability to determine if they want to further engage in the conversation. You could certainly take away that second ask and there's lots of different ways to transition from the problem into the poke the bear. But the idea here is to allow the prospect some sense of control and again, lots of different ways to do that. Thanks. Let's see. So here's another one, sort of about about scripting and the level of research you're doing. Somebody said this was an anonymous person. If you're prospecting into the VP level at enterprise accounts, they find it challenging to go into these cold calls without some level of personalization with the scripts. Like how how affective you think they are in that? Like do they with that persona? Do they? Do they still need personalization or these good yeah, so, so my take on this is people are interested in new ideas that can help them move away from something you don't want. So all the piece of sales, when I cold call and I say something like Hey, I'm calling to share a slideshow I created on small changes you can make to your email sequences that can motivate more prospects to respond. Does that sound like something you'd be open to attending? Or my way off base here? Whether or not I say that? Or Hey, I noticed that you just had this post where you liked x, Y and Z, and have you ever heard of Josh Braun like? To me, that doesn't add a lot and it takes a lot of calories to personalize at that level and most of the time people are going to pick up. So I'm for making it personal meaning for All v piece of sales, what are they going to be interested in, and making it very specific. You can be personal but not have to be personalized and you save just a lot of time and you can actually talk to more people about what really matters to them, which is, can I help you move away from something you don't want or towards something you do want? The key is to make it very specific. Talking to VP's of sales, doing an event for v piece of sales that are managing at least five reps and we're showing a slideshow on small cheeks you can make to your cold email sequences that have the potential to motivate more people to respond. Does that sound like something that would be a value to you or my like way off base here. Like that's another way to do part two. Notice it's personal around something specific, but it's not personalized. And I mean I can pick back on that suit because you know I make in a credible amount of calls. The value that you provide in the top of the funnel a cold call. It doesn't matter how much research you've done, you either are going to solve a problem that they have or you're going to hit on a problem or a pain to have right now or not. So you can research all you want about who they are and what they've done, etc. But if you don't actually do something that's going to, you know, solve a problem or identify an opportunity they're missing or, you know, get them promoted or and them for being fired, like probably just shouldn't be making that call in the first place. And so nailing that initial value proposition that's a line to those pain points is way more important than any personal research. And if you want to do some research, then Steve Richard Actually has a good framework calls at the three by three that you can jot into your crm, you know, have those quick little notes. So if they if you get challenged, what do you know about...
...me? When you know about the company? You can drop those little nuggets. But but honestly, if you're not hitting on something that's going to solve a problem for that organization, then you're not gonna have success anyway. Doesn't writ how much research you put into it. Yeah, the last thing I would just add on here is that there's a there's, like you pointed out drops. Maybe I'm just using different words, but there's a difference between personalization and relevance, right, and so the value of the way Joe is reaching out is that he's used corgis m to already identify by the accounts that are looking for something like cognizant right now. So he knows that, if he's calling the right contacts of those accounts, that they are interested in the problem that he's solving. So the personalization becomes less important. To know what college they went to or what they posted on Linkedin is less important than, you know, the what heat leak challenge that is at hand for them. Yeah, it's like what do the groups of people like this have in common that they want to move away from? Like I can call all triathletes that are signed up for iron man Cosumel, and I could say something like this. Hey, Josh, saw that you're signed up for iron man COSUMMEL. I often speak the Tra athletes that are really struggling with the twenty plus hours of week they have to train, and I was just curious, like, how are you dealing with that? Are you like getting up early, stay in up late, or you just too tired to even answer this question? Like that's another way to go from part two to part three, and that's something that every triathlete that signed up for Iron Man Cosummel or an iron man is going to be able to relate to. I don't need to know what they posted about or what they commented on to kind of get to the core issue there. Okay, let's try one more question for kind of at the end here. We can squeeze in one more. This is a quick one, an easy when I'd say Josh and Joe, for your experience building that script. How long do you recommend spending on a script, Joe? What's your take? Joe, scripts quite dangerous, I find, because it you can find stuff pigeon hold, like what Josh and Ryan said. One of the open is. That worked well for me. Like it comes down to your tonat and how come to you our deliverament. So I would never script out an entire cold will just have a framework of the line in questioning you want to go down and, to be honest, if you understand the product and the role of the prospect, you speaking to the line of question. She just come with conversation. Yeah, probably say like fifteen minutes, craft a few variations of an opener and then that's how I would do anyway. You know, I think the the I think the thing, the more important thing, is how quickly can you attest it, because you don't know. So what we're doing here is we're testing message product fit very quickly. As Ryan said, we want to get about ten or fifteen connects and we want to make sure, hey, these are the right people, but we're not getting deep. This was to me a win, meaning, Hey, I probably maybe make some tweaks to the script and tomorrow literally we could have ten more conversations and eventually we're going to start to know like hey, we're getting deeper, but it does take some iterations. Like this is why I wanted to do this cold calling and I was hoping that it wouldn't like everyone wouldn't just be booking meetings, because I wanted to show the process of sometimes what you have to take to kind of iterate the script, but you'll make some changes. A great way to iterate the script is to look at case studies and to see what people were struggling with, what the cost of an action was with before, and lift those words and put him in. That's what I was attempting to do with this first version. But literally I had no idea what cognism was a week ago and we did our best shot at goal and the I ds to death. Then sort of rev it up and get momentum going. Not to overthink it, because most most people do is now they've spend all this time writing sequences and Caden says that's a week through, weeks, four weeks. Then I got to get everyone through it. You're like a two months or we've done here in literally thirty minutes is we've kind of said, hey, you know what, we maybe want to tweak number two before we actually start setting out ninety emails, and once they start landing and resonating, we can then start to, you know, pile on different channels.
Let's how you know this was real. We didn't take this no safety ned. Again, really big round of applause for for Joe, just to being willing to step up, but also made it look easy. Did a great Oh freaking throw man, that was amazing, incredible. Some good objections to stuff. Great job and thanks for coming. Everybody is great having you. This was a lot of fun. Thanks again, Joel. She's got a right job or everybody. This episode of Revenue Champions was brought to you by Coptunism. Make sure you're subscribed to the podcast to get notified when the next one goes live. I'm follow cootunism on Linkedin and twitter for more sales and marketing content. If you're listening on anchor, you can leave US recorded questions or comments by hitting the message Buston below the title. We actually love hearing me and if you enjoyed this episode, please tell your friends and share it online. We want to get the word out about revenue champions so we can bring you the best podcast possible. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.
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