Revenue Champions
Revenue Champions

Episode 61 · 4 weeks ago

61: Demandism: content distribution 101 (with Cognism Marketing Leaders)

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Welcome to Revenue Champion’s sixth episode of Demandism. Where Cognism marketing leaders Alice De Courcy, Liam Bartholomew and Fran Langham give actionable tactics behind executing a demand generation first strategy that delivers month on month marketing revenue growth. This episode of Demandism focuses on content distribution and features a special guest, Binal Raval, SEO & Content Executive and mastermind behind Cognism’s social channels. Alice, Liam, Fran and Binal discuss scaling your company LinkedIn, paid video ads, distribution in demand generation and more.

Hi Guys. So I thought we'll get started, as it is welcome to demand, the Delative, I believe her on and today we're gonna be covering content distribution, one I won. But before we get going, we've had some feedback that we're not very good at introing everyone to everyone. So Um, let's do that this time. First of alloys Um. Yeah, I'm Alice, cm cognism, and then I will hand over to Fran to give a little intro. Hi, I'm Fran. I'm head of demanding at Cognism, so nice to be here. And then, bean ow, do you want to introduce yourself? Our guests for today? Yeah, yes, Hi everyone. So, ryame's Beale and I'm one of the SEO and content exacts here at cognizum. Yeah, we bought been on as our guest speaker today because she has been running our linkedin Um Company, Pace trashy, for the last to name six plus months. Pi must be now more maybe Um, and has a job with it. So yeah, we're excited to have been our show with us, like all the good and the bad things that we've done. But also, if you're wondering if you're in the right place, but not wants to normally brag. But I thought I would bring this up because this happened yesterday and I thought it was a great timing, given that the whole Um, the subject matter of this Webinar is all about content distribution, Um, and a part of our key channels and our strategy is our linked in organic page. And the fact that we were, yeah, called out just to say that doing a good job, I think hopefully, means you're in good hands here today and we will be able to give you some very actionable advice, Um, and tactical things you can go away implement going but before we do, in the spirit of introducing people, Liam's joined us, then John and do cook. Can't show to yourself? Yes, and I had the demand Gen team here at cognizance everything in creating that sweet, sweet demand. Yet great, amazing. So you know, we're just going to crack on into the content and start off with scaling your company Linkedin page. So, but background, Um, we started about three K followers probably two years ago now, and now we're nearly at twenty eight k followers Um, and we've seen a lot of velocity in that growth in terms of following greats since we changed the way we did things. So no better person to bring on to talk through what we actually have done to achieve this phenomenal increase in followers Um and growth of the page than being all who is actually managing it day to day. So, yeah, take it away, being all great. Thank you so much. Um. Yeah, so I think to start with, when you're thinking about the improvements to me to Linkedin, you've got to really just go back to the basics. What is your goal of the page now? As a channel, linked in, it should just purely be value lead. You should not be using it to start promote yourself. We've found this out the hard way. We weren't getting the engagement that you are that we wanted. So this is what we've learned. It's an organic channel designed to help educate your audience and build awareness. Think of it as kind of like the Tofu part of your content distribution strategy and your overall demand Gen approach. So in these posts, in these linkedin posts, if you think of what you see on your feed every day, you want to be able to learn something. That's what Linkedin is. It's it's essentially a professional learning community. When you're in B two B so eaching include actual takeaways, Um, something new or interesting through audience to consider, and also help your audience to recognize common pain points and say, Oh yeah, I can relate to that and okay, this is a really good way to serve them. So this is sort of a mantra that I have. Well, Alice is kind of ingrained in my brain now. So for every post I kind of asked myself, if I was scrolling through my feed on Linkedin, is my post valuable enough that I'm going to consume the content in feed in moments? So I'm gonna Stop, consume and then take away something really valuable. So where can your valuable content for these Lincoln posts come from? So for us we ask our salves and our marketing teams. We're listening to customer coals. That way we can understand what the pain points are. Regular research into key trending topics. Linkedin in itself is a huge resource for this, but we also work with the subject matter expert, which we've covered in a previous expert we've worked with Ryan racers that. He's got some great insights. Um and even his own channel is a great resource for the company. Channel, taking sights from the great content that you've would already produced. If you think about your content team, they've spent hours outputting great blog articles and, you know, white papers and podcast episodes. Use it to your advantage. It's a great resource and, yeah, as I was already mentioned, taking sights from other leading industry leaders where they've got a presence Um. So this is kind of a few young guests of the many valuable content ideas to formula linkedin posts.

So this is what we used to do in the past and it didn't work well, and I'll go through why. Promoting one of our blog articles. So this was one of our call calling live write ups. So whilst the link says seven tips for ACING card calling, there's not really much more information. So if I am scrolling through this and looking at this post for the first time, I'm not likely to clip on it because it's just a link and I'm going to say what's in it for me. There's no actual tip in the text itself. Now what would have been different here is if I took a deep dive into one of the seven tips and then said there's a link in the comments. That's not promotional. It is valuable because somebody can read it, they can take an insight. Okay, this is one way that I can ace card calling in two. So that's the difference. So what we've learned is that we should be giving way through our linkedin channel, a lot more than what we are asking for in return. What I'm now gonna do is go through some of the posts that we have been experimenting with them that we found super engaging and valuable. So this is a text only post. So, as we've kind of mentioned before, your block content is a crucial part of your content distribution strategy, and that's if it's distributed in a valuable and meaningful way, and Linkedin can help with this. So if you take a specific topic from a blog, zoom into it and provide that as the content for your post, that is way more valuable. Um, and it doesn't also have to be about your block content. You can also use your text only posts to talk about insights experiences. I love experimenting with storytelling posts. They've been really successful for us. Um and again, you're sharing something new that you've learned with your audience or your following, Um, and they're engaged with the post. In return, so on this one, for example. Um, this is essentially taken from one of our posts, one of our blog posts rather common challenges space, se SDRs. So this is just a zoom into one of the challenges, Um, and it's just got an insight. There's not even in this one, there's not even a link to the log article in the comments, but it's just one text only post. Um. So you know, if I was an str I can immediately understand or sympathize that this is one of the main challenges that's facing my role, Um, in the next few months or, you know, however long. So that's the difference with those kind of posts. So this is a text and video post. So this is something that we kind of got inspired from with the whole Chris Walker refined labs styles. So this has been Um. You know, this is kind of how we immediately started brainstorming with the value lead approach. So we we have our new episodes of the podcast that come out every week, so we wanted to sort of revisit how we were sharing those because in the past we would have a very small supporting text about the guest speaker, not really give much to your weight and then just a link to to the to the subscription link, called to the episode link with a video and we realized again that's too promotional. It's not really what linkedin should be used for. So this time now we use text and video posts as an opportunity to from not promote but share the podcast in a meaningful way. And we don't have a superforceable language. We don't say here's the link, we leave it in the comments below. So this one, this was from one of our recent episodes with David Delaney. So we've just got the video snippet and then just some supporting text and then if people are interested they can go and check out the the podcast and the links and the comments. Um. So yeah, we do the TAG. We tax speakers. Um. So there's a link in the comments. Let's make sure that there's a key insight in the actual post itself. So something supporting the video and something that we've learned as well is obviously if you're on Linkedin, normally, if I'm scrolling personally, I don't have time to watch fifty minutes to an hour videos. So we've found to be useful the square format snippets. So we've got a great video person. She's amazing at this. Um. So she will take one podcast episode, split them up into video snippets, Um, and use that kind of center each one around a different topic, and that, for us, has been a lot more successful and it means that your audience can consume the episode, invites those chunks and take something away super easily, Um, something actutionable, something super valuable, very quickly. So I'm going to talk a little bit more about some of the other value their posts. Um. So these were actually centered around optimizing what we were already dealing with. So a great example is carousels. Now the carousels have gold us for engagement. We've we knew this even before the value that approach, but obviously when we were thinking about this new value, that approach, we're thinking, how can we optimize them even more? How can we use them to our advantagude and more? In the past I think we were using carousels purely for hiring posts, I believe so. I think we're using them for anything else really, UM, whereas now, if I'm briefing in a...

Carousel to our lovely design team, I will take the section from a blog. Um, it's a step by step or really actionable, valuable tips or tricks and turn that into the carousel. So this is an example of one, the revenue driven email marketing checklist. And then in the actual text of the linkedin post it is expanding on the topic a little bit more generally. and Um, yes, so, for example, we might include quotes from our colleagues or insights from somebody that we've interviewed. And Yeah, again, immediately your followers can all your audience thing, you can flick through the slides, Um, save it. They've immediately learned something new in feed in moments. So these have been really great for us and you've just bad an even better way to optimize them. So again, polls audience. They love Poles. They just engage with them. But again, there's so much more that you can do with them when you've found this out. So what I will now do is I will do a pole, but again, I don't just give the question and then just say vote now. I'll give some background around the question, Um, and then go into the questions. So you just kind of lead somebody into it and then once the results are in, maybe a week later, I will do a follow up post. So I always do these survey says, type posts and I will give a rundown of the results. Um, and then what these follow up posts really do is give you an opportunity to provide even more value for you and these follow up posts are great because your audience might miss the poll and then this way they can have a look and see, okay, this is what the results are. Um, there's something new here. There's, you know, some more information, and I will always end it on is. If you didn't get a chance to vote or if you've got thoughts on this, let us know in the comments and that just keeps the conversation going. I think often when we're posting to Linkedin and you can just do one post and forget it's there's so much opportunity to kind of create like a thread of posts, and this is something even into the second half of this year and they'll be working on a little bit more. But yeah, this is just something that we've done and found really, really fun to experiment with when it comes to polls. So definitely recommend during these follow up pole posts if you haven't done already. So I want to talk about the exceptions, because when it comes to Webinars, live events, Um, there's no reason you can't share that it's happening, but you just have to lead the value. So, instead of saying we have a new cold calling live episode that you can feature on, you can volunteer, here's the date, here's the time. If I'm swelling through, you know for the first time what even happens on the cold calling live. Okay, it's a round cold calling. What does that mean exactly? So what we now do with these kind of posts, and I think later on in the presentation will kind of take a better look at this. Um, we will have a text and video post and then in the comments say this was taken from one of our cold calling lives. If you're in trusted in signing up for the next one, you can do Um. That way it's value driven and instead of posting the link to the sign up in the actual body of the post, instead of doing that, putting it in the comments means that it's not super forceful and Um again, it's just value driven. That's just what you've gotta always be. Think, lead first with value and then outside of love events. This is the only other exception that I give myself when it comes to promotional material. Press releases or news. That's really important for us because, especially if your audience is growing with you, Um, you want to kind of you know, inform them of the company journey and milestones. So those are the only other exceptions that I'll give because they do get great engagement. But apart from that, it steered close and stir away from you promoting events, Um, if they're not value driven. Um, and you just have to be strict with yourself. I think this is something I had to kind of get used to do that. This is something that I was avanaging. So if somebody said, oh, Hey, can you promote this, let's say, you know, sorry, this isn't value driven. So I just had be a bit brutal with people. Just say no, Um, and it's paid off. So yeah, that's the only other exception. So yeah, speaking of why it's paid off, these are the results. So I'm not going to go through these number through number, but essentially you can see so in February. This is the other thing. Like this has been quite a immediate shift for us and we've already seen the payoff really quick so around the mid every time, this is when we um, just decided on this value. Let Approach. This is when as came to me to I think need to revisit what we're doing with Linkedin. So I went away did some brainstorming. U spent the you know, sort of the next half of February brainstorming different posts and just making sure that we were heading in the right direction. And then almost immediately we were exceeding our engagement target so much that we actually changed our new engagement target to six thousand Um last month. And you can see the follow of growth. It's following us some of the pattern. So Um again by June. You are in really...

...good spot in terms of our following. So there's results kind of support all of the findings that I've been doing and sort of all the research and everything that we've been doing. And we're always learning, right, it's never a bit process. They're always going to find different things to trial Um and yeah, so those are the results and then I just wanted to kind of go into some other tips and tricks that I've learned along the way. So the best time to post that we found one PM, five PM daily, Monday to Friday. So these are the two times that we've kind of identified where people are Superp if, if you think one pm time, people are like maybe on their lunch break, they're scrolling through linkedin. I know I won't always doing that. Um and five pm because it's the end of the workday. And again, most of the time people are flinking through Linkedin, maybe they commute home or they just finished work. In terms of the metrics to tracks, so I would say the two are worth tracking. Engagement, definitely Um, and the follower growth. And in terms of the platform that I use, um I use a goora pulse and purely because I can schedule, track and track the progress of linkedin posts and one go. So it kind of just is easier to track the results and see, um if the payoff is happening. And this is something that I need to be better at Um, but it is something that I you know, it's something that I need to pick up again. But replying to comments, and what I mean is not just reply saying that's a really good point, asking follow up questions. How have you done this? That way you can really keep a sense of community going and keep the engagement and conversation going and if you're stuck on what to do, see what other companies are doing. So for us big inspirations were the Chris Waulker and refined class approach. METADATA was a big one for us, and Land Board and gated podcasts for those square format videos. So that's kind of where we discovered that and you know, these have been the big ones for us. And then in terms of a content plan, so I'm sure you know in the past on previous divids and we've spent spoken about content plans, not having a rigid one and the singles for Linkedin. Things are changing every day. What people are talking about special on Linkedin. It's changing all the time. So I like to keep it kind of a weak in advance. I don't do more than that. Allows Flexibility. Sometimes I'll just say text, video posts and this decide on the day what I, you know, want to do um and that way I just couldn't find I can have a bit more fun with it and then up scaling wide knowledge. So back in January, for every time when this was given over to me, I had to go away and do a lot of my own research and personal learning just to kind of understand, you know, the fundamentals, the basics of Linkedin. So for me a big one was devon reads linkedin course. It was amazing. A lot of the stuff that I've kind of included in this has been you know, I've got to give credit to him. His course was amazing. So my advice would be if you're, you know, taking over this channel for the first time, talked to your life, to juror whoever else, do your colleague and just say, you know, I really want to invest in this course. Would you support me on it? and Um, yeah, it's been a it's been a huge difference in terms of minds to meet the channel. Oh, that's amazing. Thanks be all so much for that. That was really, really good. Um. And Yeah, I bean I has been managing this for as I said, for us, purely like on her own and has all of those great results have come from her work and research and understanding how to be value driven. So I think the hopefully loads of great insights there for everyone. And I'm just gonna Take Max's question. So, Um, what tips would you give for multiproduct companies that target multiple personas? Um, so, first and foremost, what I would do is find out who is actually active on Linkedin, because it may well be that some of these personas linkedin is not actually the channel for them, Um, and it may be somewhere else. And then what I would do is I would run a test. So I would probably go for two months and I would actually split out the personas and I would use all the best types of value lead engagement tactics that we've actually covered now, Um, and then I would look and see which ones are resonating most, so which generate the most engagement per persona. Um. And it also be obviously where you'll follow a grave ends up coming from as well during that time, and I think that will give you a good steer to look at actually a case. So linked in for us is working really well for these personas and that's where we're going to double down. And it might be that you need to go and find the others somewhere else in a different channel that's going to be benefited for them. Or you might find that it's, you know, they all, they all are loving the linkedin Um. And then that's probably where you're going to be supplement your organic with some paid as well to enable you to actually really target most effectively. But that would be how I would approach it. Um. Okay, and then I wanted to cover. Um, go onto content distribution more generally, because I think, Um, it's interesting one. It's obviously very topical right now content distribution, and people are talking about it and saying don't just post once and forget, Um, create and distribute forever, but there's not a lot of tactical advice on...

...how you actually do this. So we have really been trying to work it out for ourselves at Colnism, the Linkedin company pages like one place that we're doing that, but there are lots of other areas that we're doing distribution in as well. Um. And so we did try out having one person solely focused on the problem of content distribution, Um, and we had them in their role, focus on it for like four to five months, but we didn't really get the results from that that we were hoping for, Um, and I think it became clear to me that actually focused wasn't the problem. It was actually about tying what we're trying to achieve a distribution to strategic objectives of the marketing function. And actually it does need to be multiple people who are involved in it, um to maximize the impact you're going to get. And we're going to touch on lots of those different teams and who is involved in that process now as well. Um. So hopefully that will be brought to life a little bit closer. But then this is one example where I'm gonna be able to show you very clearly how we take one pillar piece of content and we distribute it in multiple formats with multiple people involved in that process. Um. And Yeah, so hopefully that will give you some ideas. So we run this Um very much like this event. This is our sort of live marketing event. We call it Um and we run a similar one for ourselves. So now, which is called cold calling live Um, and this happens on a BI monthly basis and we look at we've kind of broken down where we feel like the channels and opportunities for distribution for this are after the event. So we can repurpose that live card calling event for a podcast, very much like we do with the demanders of episodes. We can do social media posts. They can form a lot of what the organic linkedin content that been all users. We can run paid ads, which will go onto later exactly how we do that and how we think about splitting a big piece of content into chunky pieces of content. For our paid ads and how we bucket those. Um. It can also be the basis of blogs, it can feed in the newsletter that we run and it can be it can be basis of a bigger, longer form written piece of content, Um, and also our subject matter expert can also promote it as well. So these are all the different ways that we can and do distribute that one live event. So it takes an hour of time for Ryan Research, who is our subject matter expert, and also one other person, and from that we get so much value and it just rinses and repeats. So this is just an example of Ryan sharing it on his own profile and yet distributing it in that way. And there's also the podcast. So then it will go onto our podcast and that's actually some of our best listen to episodes for ourselves persona, Um. And there's no reason that you can't, yeah, just take the live webinar event and make that into a podcast with a little bit of editing, and then blogs. It becomes the basis for written content, because often people digest things in very different ways, and so we have found that actually having blogs about the live event and are very useful. But also, I think different. It's a great time for us to come up other content ideas because we try and keep them all very engaging as well. So we have questions, we see where the engagement come from, comes from, and that gives us better ideas we're going to write about as well. So also blogs. And then we have we create like a longer form piece of content, which might be the compilation of two to three or four episodes of that live cold calling. So this page us very long. It's interactive, it fuels our S C O, but it's also there and being pushed out and paid as well. And then, speaking of paid, we run snippets from those live events in paid ads and these tend to sit in our thought leadership and content buckets, which will cover later, and they get amazing engagement as well and organic social finally, it is great content for being order to use Um, to actually put into all of the things that we just talked about. Now it comes from a lot of those like the sort of live events or other pieces of content that we're producing Um. But yeah, becomes the subject matter of what being I was able to post about later on. So that's just a really like practical oh and fight and we did it in other ways. So we use it in the in the newsletter too. So yeah, there's that's literally one piece of our long content and we use it in all of these different ways. Um, and there's a whole load of people within the team. He'll be responsible for delivering that in different areas. So that hopefully that's sort of brought to life, the different ways in which you can take one thing, re use it time and again and actually distribute that much further. And so now going on to paid social for a content distribution channel. So I think this one is interesting. We've covered organic, Um, but we didn't want to not talk about paid social because there's for exactly the reason that I was actually touching on a bit earlier with Max and sort of Um, I guess his pain point in having multiple personas. Paid social gives you a lot more freedom in terms of targeting and what you're able to do.

So I will hand over to Leon to talk through how we're approaching distribution on paid yeah, hi everyone. So, Um, there's absolutely no reason why paid social shouldn't be a content distribution channel. Um, and here I'm back and about moving from lead gender demand Jen model. But, Um, if you are using paid channels in the right way of like not pushing them to gated content orfer leads, then Um, you can promote and distribute your content, I'm gated in in feed or on your website, whatever way suits you, um, like really effectively. Um. So there's some actual benefits for using paid social over like an organic following or creating an organic following, Um, and that is that you can, when you can target very precisely on paid social, so you can really distribute it to the people that you need to get in front of an eyes on Um, and you can hit that target audience with the same message more than once. So they're easier like. Um. I've seeing people here, you know, talking about and we're already talking about like when you post too much on you're like company page. That, yeah, like Linkedin, maybe starts to like limit how student stuff, but when you when you're paying for it, obviously, Um, it gets pushed in front of those eyes. Um, as much as as much as that they can't take from you right, because they're they're taking your money. They'll they'll give you what they'll give you what you want. Um. And it's much quicker than organic social to get started with, because obviously the audience is already there. You've just got to put the budget behind it so you don't have to spend that time building it out. Um Uh. And it also helps it your organic following. At the same time as we've seen our budget increase and are spend on paid social increase, we see the following that we get on our company accounts and on personal accounts go up with it, because it's it's you're just your rand is getting pushed out everywhere. So it all becomes like a double momentum sort of action. Um. And then you can easily distribute it in different formats across the channels and audiences. So you can break out those campaigns and build out like carousels, videos, static images, um. And you can build that all at the same time, as you might have to take in more considerations when you're or gap like doing organically, like what you're going to do this post and next, and so you can have it all running at once. Um. But the main car obviously, is you need money for it. Um. But if you have the money for it, it's a great way to just get your content out there and justtribute it quickly and so what channels can you use? Are, like, I think, a good channels for B two B especially. So I put here Linkedin, facebook and Instagram, Youtube and tiktok Um, and I'd say each have separate considerations for starting that you want to think about. So linkedin is by and large I've probably had twitter to here as well, Um, and just thinking about the things that we're basically considering using or using. But each of each have separate considerations for starting. Like Lincoldin is by and large the best for targeting. You can hit Um in B two B. You can get people really accurate Um and you can get exactly the people you want, but you are going to pay more for it. Um, the CPM a bit more expensive than save facebook or instagram. Um, facebook and instagram is great. You can get much more impressions for your price for the cust point, but you'll have problems with targeting. Um in it natively. So we use at all metadata to help us target better. Um, but that is like a major thing about facebook and instagram. Like you, you have to sort of sort out your targeting to get the most out of it, but you can do it natively as well. Um, but you're not going to be. It's not going to be as like Um accurate as is on linkedin. Um. And then the other two. The first two Um profectly started far as on the first thing, the last tear, we stop looking. I want to do more on Youtube Um, and actually we're looking at doing that now. You can get quite you can get very granular in your targeting on Youtube. It's just that the videos that you want to create Um need to be a bit high production. I think Youtube is closer to TV and that kind of the ads you create. You can't really be low production on it. You know results. So that's something we're looking at doing now, which then takes a little bit more time. Um and TIKTOK is really new for us. But you can also target here quite granuly, targeting on Hashtags, so people who are literally just posting maybe like B Two B Marketing, sales coaching, Um. And then I think there's different ways because if the audience is still so much widering, the targeting isn't as good. You have to think about ways that you might call out your audience and stuff in your ads before you do it and things like that. I'm just gonna ask you a quick how large our audiences on paide social link at the moment? And they very obviously by saying a bit roughly. Yes, I'm good.

I might have to just have a quick divid and have a quick look at that. Actually, three K at the momentum. I've just been on this. Yeah, Um, three H K, and I think that's the bench the benchmark from Linkedin as well is around but we've had success with running like very relevant pain point focused content to like target accounts, for example, and those audience can be around between six and ten k. But the most success, I would say, for Max Max engagement is, yeah, like a hundred K plus, I would say. Yeah, I've touched on this again as well. Like, again, it depends on what is your a view of your product and actually how big is your I C P anyway, because it may well be that you can't get three hundred K, and that's actually fine because again, like, what are you willing to pay to get eyes on that content Um consistently in feed? And also, if the A V warrants it, then actually, you know, you could probably could pay two x what we're playing for a CPM. So I think it's all relevant obviously do get economies of scales. So we're very lucky and fortunate and that our I C P M is really sales and marketing professionals in any industry. Um. So we have a very wide audience. But equally, when we've tried to go tight up for UM target accounts and sort of enterprise focus, that has also paid off for us. So don't be afraid of that either. Um. Just yeah, I think you just need to think about it in the context of Your Business. I would also say it's like massively dependent on the budget you can put forward for it. Right. So we we faced. For if you've got a three K audience but you can only afford to spend ten dollars a day on an ad, you're not going to get very far with it. Like your frequency is going to be so low that no one's going to see that at more than once ever. Um. So the smaller your budget you have, the tip to your audience can be. But also if you have a massive budget and a tight audience and you're going to just Max out your frequency and annoy everyone with your at too quickly, Um, and everyone's going to see your content over and over again and they will need refreshing. So I think it's so dependent really. But yeah, I think even then, as long as you're aware of the frequency point, you keep the cap in mind and your refreshing frequently, then like not necessarily a bad thing. Um. And then do you know the rough split Split, Liam, that we are running on retargeting on linkedin versus facebook instagram? Right now most of the majority of the retargeting we do is on Linkedin, Um over facebook. Um. But actually, if you look at budget to split in general. Um. So if we take all of our paid budget, Um, and we took out for including like Google in this as well, it currently sits like it's like Linkedin facebook and then like another like sits with Google. So Um, that's kind of like the split in general. Um. And then so this is like how we structure it. There's probably a million ways to do. There's I'm just hoping this helps some people anyway, and maybe they'll. Maybe I would go in and people can think about like constructuring its similar or and I think will change it at some point as well, like refrastructured in many different ways. Um. But we break out, basically I linkedin and facebook campaigns into these sort of buckets. Um. So there's thought leadership, which at the moment gets ten percent of budget and that goes. The leadership is everything that is like all your content that is talking about the next thing in that in that content buckets. So like we're like talked about in that like this Le Genter to my gen move marketing, for example, maybe in sales we've talked about like what we've had the campaign, like a five pillars of outbound, like what is outbound and where's it going and what's the next Um, what's the future of it? Um, and that sort of sits in your thought leadership. This is like top level education keeping that people would be like interesting. And sorry, Lim as, you're talking through these Um. Just with SEAN's question in mind, could you talk through the objective that we choose on them as well, so how that differs from traffic, engagement, brand awareness, etcetera? Yes, absolutely, UM, and I'll go I can go into that actually on the individual ads. So Um, quite often, like it's like when we have like these objective, the objectives that you'll have um for each ad. I think it actually depends on what the content is you're distributing rather than the bucket. So Um, if you're if you're pushing them to like a long form piece on your website that you know is really good and the ad is just to attract someone there, then you're going to choose the sort of website visits Um objective and you're gonna want to like optimize it so that you know you're getting clicks on the ads to get through to your landing page. Um, if your all your message can be consumed in the UM, in the ad, whether it's static, whether it's a carousel to kind of play with it. Right,...

...it's you're probably you're more likely to have it. So it's all going to be consumed in feed. Then you're going to be we we would pick like reach as the objective because we just want to reach people in our audience and we just want them to see it in feed. They don't need to leave, they get all that they can consume. The content is distributed in feed for them. And then same for video. Right, if you've got a video, you want them to consume that video in feed. So you choose video views Um as maybe your campaign objective. Um. But then again, like, there's a video down here that we've got, um in the demo stage, which we're going to Um, and that actually we're like trying to push people for conversions. But there is that the video has content in itself. So then we might choose their stuff that want to go back to website visits. Um. But if you have a particularly small retargeting audience you might. Um. You can Max out quite quickly if you go from versions that you can cook, you can change it to video views as well to sort of like Max the amount of times that you're your ad gets paid. Um. I hope like. I hope that covers it and go back into it a bit more if needly, but we're gonna as well. So how do you tend to organize these ads at campaign structure level? Um. And then, like the second part of that question, how do you close content boosts and linkedin versus a true sponsor posed and don't do content leasts? Um. It's the quick answer to that one. But then if you want to just talk through how that's actually organized on the campaign level, Liam yes, sure. So, on the campaign level we will divide as we've got different accounts for regions. Then in each account there each region. Then you'll have thought leadership marketing, thought leadership, sales sort leadership, marketing content and sales content. Break those all out. Then you go into like thought leadership, and then we're in there. We'd have the individuals, that's the campaign groups. Then in between you'd have your campaigns, and then you would have thought leadership static. Thought leadership static is like just image thought leadership. Um, carousel, thought leadership video. We'll have a naming convention there as well to say whether the objective is reach, website views or anything like that. We just break it out like that. If you do it on facebook it's easier because you can push formats together, so you can have carousel that, you can have all of them in the same adset, so you can simplify your your basically your campaign structure. But in Linkedin you fully break it out. Um, so content for us is anything we've adopted line back to the product. So Um, it's like co calling for us or like the we've got hit like the dark side of marketing, like the idea of not collecting leads, like not like other ways of using data and not having to do contact contact data captures, because obviously that feeds back into our product as well. And then we have product ads, which is basically pushing cognism. You know, we run big campaigns for these, Um and like what cognism is, like explaining the product and how both sales or marketing and how you can use it. Um. And then we have social proof, which is obviously is running all of our case studies and reviews and things like that, pushing those out into the audience. Um. And then we have demo, which is um pushing for like a demo conversion based stuff. Um. But here what you can use content again in here. So like this one um in the toplets at the top of the bottom right corner's got Dave, who's our sales Eider, and he just like addresses the audience gives something information about Um cognism at the same time, and it's just like much more interesting than just like grab a demo ad Um to. It's like another way of getting out there. And I would just touched on because I'm just conscious, like we're talking at this from like a point of having quite a look budget that we're able to put into these, and so it might be that you don't have a large budget, and so splitting out your budget in to what is now like five different campaigns and then even further down from that. It's not something that's going to be practical for you. So I guess, Um, from my perspective, if, if I was looking at like what I would do in that situation, I would combine like thought, leadership and content together, Um, and I would I would confine the product and social proof together, and Demo is just retargeting anyway. So you could get this down to just three buckets. Um. This is probably like if you're in a position where you do have a larger budget to spend and you're able to like spit them out in this way. I just wanted to mention that. Yeah, and that's like totally true as well and exactly how we started. Really we only split this out more as um the budget increases, and in fact, in that way it helps you, helps you spend that budget right and distribute that content more effectively. So if you've got this budget, you tighten it up and if you've got more, you can't start to expand it out, and and then, and then then, this is sort of where it really worked for us. In that way, Um, and in terms of the audience that we're going after, is like is we've got our marketing ourselves, audiences,...

...broad, Um, and we just try and we're like we're trying to hit all of that cold audience. It doesn't matter where you are in like whoever you've seen another ad before or anything like that. Obviously doing the targeting for Demo, but we're not we're not funneling it out. We're going all of the I cp all at once. So they might see a social proof bad and then followed by that they might see a thought leadership. We're not assuming where they are in that sort of like final and what, what sort of content they want to see. We're just pressure everything all the time. Everyone. That's my better sums up than me, but yeah, that's kind of it. Um, an impappy to answer any more questions as well. Great, thank you, Um. And then let's go into how we structure this in the demand genteause. I mean, there's been questions on this Um from Charlie and others in the chat, so I'm hoping that we're going to answer them now, but if not, just put back up and we can cover any gaps that we miss off. But over to you, Fran Cool. Thank you. Um. Yeah, so, Um, yeah, I did see your question, Charlie, but yeah, it was coming later in the presentation, so hopefully I can answer this for you. So yeah, again, I've shared quite a lot recently about the different structures we've had. I've spoken about a pod like leading into that kind of structure Um, and we've taken a lot of these like lessons that we've learned and we've come up with this new structure for like Um, I guess, like the way in which we're going to approach Um d g. So just to talk you guys through Um and I guess Um as well. I appreciate that everyone has like different personas and potentially different setups, but um we basically so vioice it as the head of D G and we've now broken it out into Um core focuses. So what we've found was that we have two called Personas, and if everyone's focusing on both, then I guess like the messaging won't always be as clear. Like our main goals are to be really value lead and you can only be super value lead if you really understand your persona, like their pain points, like no where your audience are hanging out. So we decided to split Um, split the pod and I guess essentially in half. So we have sales and we have marketing Um and there are core personas and then we have a DG managers Um that feed into and own those personas, who are supported by demand generation execs as well. Um, and where content sits, as we have a senior SCO and content exact in each part. So again they form like part of that sales pard or that marketing pod, and the idea is that we have that true expertise and that true focus. Um. Totally appreciate that maybe not everyone does have that luxury of Um, having like too content, of people like sitting in a d d team, but hopefully this gives you an idea here, Um, if not of structure, of like how you can focus even in a smaller team. Um. So a few things Um, I guess to know about having Um content operating in a D G team. I'll talk a little bit about what we used to do and hopefully now I can show you this new world and how it is having a better impact. So previously, how demand Gen would work with content would be not really it wasn't ever really very focused. It was we would probably sit at the beginning of the quarter and content. We would come up with a list of vague titles. Potentially that content would work on Um and I think like that was kind of it, and then demand Gen would check in Um from time to time. So, yeah, we just really just had that I don't know, I guess for me, like it was quite wishy rushy in terms of like we had key titles, but we were really Um then having much conversation with tent after that. So what we really wanted to do is work out how we can collaborate closely with content to be like really really value lead and actually delivering what our audience want. And I'll just talk a little bit about how we're redefining the content role. And I guess like, yeah, I see, I see the comments of the JAT. I know we do have that luxury of a bigger team, but of course, Um, you know, there was a situation where that, you know, we didn't have this and we've made it work with less people. It's just obviously about how you can you know, how you're setting that up, um. And again, yeah, we can dig in afterwards about prioritization as well. Um. So this is how we've redefined the content role. So, UM, integrating content and demand generation to work as one team. Um, and the content and SCA executive. Traditionally, the role would be to come up with a list of titles and write x amount of Um and that would be that. But what we really want to do is recent lists and as we...

...want to be value driven and we're thinking about, you know, we've one gated everything. We're delivering everything across multiple channels. We want to get away from that pure blog writing. So content now are so fully aligned in the D G team, but they're optimizing their content for channels where our audience are actually hanging out. So instead of just writing blog posts, a content exact is responsible for knowing every piece of content we've got for the particular DIS owner that they're working on. and Um, we look kind of beyond the blog post or like the traditional e book and we look at producing, you know, and they're responsible for like getting this content out there and feeding it into those key content book. It's that Liam spoke about. So that thought leadership, the social proved product, etcetera. Um, and we can do that in so many different formats, as Alsi's shares, like video podcasts, Um, in graphics, Case Studies. So it's really like Um widening the scope of the there's possibilities of our content. Next a dive in their Franks. I think it's just coming back to the there's lots of people on here who might even only be one person teams. I just wanted to reiterate back to Um when I was showing that example of the cold calling live. So I guess if I was one person and demand Gen team and I was trying to do this all myself, that would definitely be taking that as like this is the way forward and this is how I'm going to like scale content and content distribution. So one live event or one big pillarpiece event, I think it's it's great if it can be videos. So these types of things are great for that Um and then you can split it down in all the ways I showed earlier in that example with the cold calling lives, you're basically taking that one hour we're going to end up with eight different content pieces and like three to four different channels that that can be served on. And the great thing about like a live event is you don't necessarily need like massive expertise on the content side to write the supporting content, because a lot of it can come from all of that. was spoken about in the event as well. So you can on freelancers, Um, to scale that, etcetera. So I just wanted to like touch back to that and say, Um, I guess we're going into like scale mode now, but if I if we were back to sort of the days in Vauxhall when it was just like a lonely team of one, that would sort of be the philosophy and process. I guess I would take Um. And yes, it would take a little bit longer than it will with a team that's got like their in house designer and videographer, Um. But again, you could one hour, one live event, eight pieces of content, three to four channels that you can serve it on. I think the key is thinking, is doing the research to understand what channels are going to have the most impactful your audience. Sorry, back to you. I just wanted to of course, UM, supervaluable and yeah, absolutely, it is all about that focus. And Yeah, this is very new to us as well. So we have operated in a world where it's just been a couple of us and we've had to just say, you know, we're going to focus on this one piece of content, but we're going to just did use it really, really well. Um. So yeah, I guess, Um, maybe maybe just to think of it differently. Instead of Um, if you are like a team of two and have one content person, maybe it is about, Um, not just producing a blog post but working out like different ways you can distribute it. So, like Alice said, like pivoting towards maybe an event that can be sliced and diced Um, as opposed to just looking at X. I know when I used to look at it it was quite tunnel vision. The content would literally just right and that was it, Um. And now it is quite exciting, like, you know, seeing them be part of like other UM DD initiatives. So yeah, really Um, the you know, content. For US sitting in the D G team, they're part of key campaigns. Um, they focus on high intent pages, Um, that convert. And again that's another thing. If if it is like a resource issue, then Um, you know, your small team. Um, we found that focusing on high intent SCO pages was something, Um, that really really paid off. So if you you don't you know, you don't have a luxury of somebody only focusing on SCO. Why don't you know? You take those high intent pages where you're seeing the most traffic, the most time on page and where you're seeing those like demo requests, Um, and where you're getting those conversions, and it's really important to focus on that and keep these high intent pages updated, as opposed, I suppose, just trying to do absolutely everything all at once. I guess that would be another advice for focus. Um. So yeah, I just think that's just wanting to give us a general update of for us, like the changing role of the content role. Now you know we do have content execs in the team, in the D G team, and you know distribution is a core part of that. So yeah, I'll leave it there because I think we probably have a few some questions. Yeah, so I wanted to go into Mike's Question because there's a yeah, this is a really good one and we can talk us through. I'm gonna Bring Liam in Um to talk us through. So how, Um Balance? How do we balanced paid social measurement and direct attribution from in platform tracking as well as...

...self reported to get a sense of what's working or we should do more or less of so I think let's touch on really important is the naming conventions. How that plugs into utms the goals that we have set up on paid platforms so that we can get that insight in salesforce and then also we can look at talk about that self reported attribution play as well. Yeah, just to take it take away. Yeah, so I think as soon as you Um, like as you know, if you're not measuring just like from Legion like uh, it's like you have to start taking like the whole the whole approach. So we have all of our ads out in platform that we're measuring, obviously all of that Um, all of the engagement and all of the stuff in there that we can see whether the contents doing well and people are commenting, liking and all of that stuff. But then if we're linking back to the website gams put in, I mean then we have first and last such gtms Um there. So if someone then comes to the website from like a facebook ad and then they complete form uh, then it will pull through that lead sources facebook Um and we'll be able to see that that's the source that they came through from. And they might come through from facebook right and then complete it form to join the Webinar. And they will say facebook and then next time they'll complete a form and they've come from an ad, from through Linkedin, and then we'll see that first, and that for our such GTM. So that gives us some sort of attribution after they've completed the form. We have on our thank you page Um what we call like Um human human verified attribution, or it's like self reported attribution Um, and we just ask people how they found out about us um and because it might be that they click through from the ad right but actually they've been listening to demand is Um for months now and that's the first thing that pops there might and that's the main reason they found out about us Um. So we piece all of that information together some sort of picture about what content is working for us, how it works. We know that people are commenting on Linkedin ads about cold calling. They're loving it. Well, knowing that people have found us from cold calling live because they've told us in the self attribution and we know from our utms that's people are coming through the ads on Linkedin and together with getting some sort of picture then of where people are coming from. Yeah, I would say like so the in platform paid social measurements should be telling you what content in each of those buckets is resonating most. So you will have your core engagement metrics that you want to set out, so we can will probably need to cover this all in the separate episode, but things like thumbstot ratio, it's like yet like Scroll Depp, these types of things that you want to measure Um. And then for the unassisted assistance to demo requests, because you can create goals within the platform as well to see that if they do go in the next thirty days, and requesting on your website as well and all these things. So you probably we would need to do a whole, I think, episode on that, but you will set your benchmarks on the engagement tracking in platform. I paid that you want to look at, and then I think that is what you look at to understand what content you need more of within each of those buckets, what's resonating, what's not working against those core objectives. And then I would say that your first and last touch U, T M S and everything that's pushed into salesforce, as well as your self reports attribution, is actually what informs your decision on which channels to double down on. So it might be that it suddenly started. Our split currently between facebook and Linkedin is very heavily weighted in Linkedin's favor. But such should we see that shift, Um, change and actually like our CPL UM on facebook and potential to grow there becomes like much higher, we might start to switch that gradually. But I guess that's the two different ways that I would split out how we look at the different types of reporting between in platform and then what you can get from your salesforce, instance, but it all starts with clean data and getting your infrastructure right in the first place so that you can actually grab those insights from your salesforce and from in platform as well, so they're actually meaningful when you come to look at it as well. Um, we would love a whole episode on this. I think that is actually all of our questions answered now and that is all the content for today. So I hope that, Um, it was useful and we've given you some ideas of ways in which you can approach both your company Linkedin page and start to scale that and then also wait other ways in which you can distribute the content, Um, and how you can start with something very simple as one live event and then create eight different pieces of content from it, activated on three to four channels and again reiterating that doesn't have to be a whole team doing that. It could just be you and think just focusing on what really makes sense for your audience. But, Um yeah, please do send us any feedback and anything you'd like to hear more about in the next episode. And thank you so much for joining us and thank you being a Um yeah, insights for amazing and it was great to hear Um what you've been doing...

...with our linkedin company page. Thanks you cool now. Thanks, see you by.

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