Revenue Champions
Revenue Champions

Episode 70 · 1 month ago

70: Cold calling live #12 (with Morgan J Ingram, Director of Sales Execution and Evolution at JB Sales Training)

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Welcome to our 12th episode of Revenue Champion’s Cold calling live, a cold calling series where top sales leaders go through live cold calls and give actionable insight and advice to how to overcome obstacles when cold calling. This week, we have a new take on cold calling live where David Bentham, Inside Sales director @Cognism joined by Morgan J Ingram, Director of Sales Execution and Evolution @JB Sales Training goes through your burning outbound sales questions.

All right here everyone, and welcome to the latest episode of cold Calling. Um. We're calling it cold calling Q and A this time because we're gonna spin a little bit and make this more of a Q and A today. Um. As always, I am um really pleased to be joined by Morgan. Um. If you don't know Morgan, I'm sure literally everybody does, but just in case you don't, he's the VP of go to market Talent and Development at Sales Impact Academy and it's pretty much the biggest person on LinkedIn ever. UM so he um, yeah, Like it's always a real pleasure, um um having you on, Morgan. I don't know whether there's anything that I missed there. No, you're good. I'm excited to be here. For those of you that were here last time, we had a good time. So we're really just diving into Q and A. We're not going to do any mark call cost but if you have any questions, feel free to chime in. And also as well, we wanted to get I want to get a sense because David, we have some list some people who this was like their fifth last time, it was like their fifth cold calling webinar with us, which is pretty cool. So I'm curious, like where is everybody at right now? Like is your first one? Is your second one? You belon too, every single one. I'm just curious in the chat you know what, you know, what the what the radars are here because I'm actually just curious. But whoever has a question, feel free to put it in the Q and A and then we can just go from there. Yeah, let us not know how loyal you are. We We actually spoke on the second time we did this Morgan about getting much So if anybody has if anybody if there's a merch company out there, maybe we need to start getting some cold calling life. He there go it. Um, So yeah, as Wigan said, UM, please jump in the chat ask questions. There's also a specific in the Q and A section. Um, you can click on the and you can actually thumbs up the any questions that you really like the look of. So maybe you don't have a question yourself, Um, but you but you know, someone else puts something in there, and that's gonna be a really good indicator to us as to whether, like, you know, you guys, what questions we should be prioritizing today. So throw them in there. Um, do the video Q and A's as well, because we want to see some of your some of your amazing faces. That'd be awesome. UM cool. It looks like we're kicking off straight away, unless there's any other housekeeping to do, Morgan, I think we're good to go. So let's get into the questions, all right, So questionnable one from I'm gonna say, I'm gonna pronounce this toy um. I hope that's correct. I hope I haven't butchered that. But Hi, my question is, what if you call the prospect and they don't speak a word of English and they are the one you need to speak to, Morgan, if you ever had to deal with that before, this one's really tough. I have. I have so quick story here. I was calling into Canada and we had realized, as SDRs at Canada or Toronto to be more to be more clear, was a really good spot for us to get prospects. Like people were booking meetings left the right with Toronto, so everyone would started going there because like the news started getting out, so Toronto got tapped and so we're like, okay, we can still go in Canada, right, So we started calling in Quebec now, I don't know if any of you have ever been to Quebec before, but they mostly speak French, right, so it's actually the lowering Quebec. You have to everything has to be written in French. They protect that old costs. So yeah, yeah, so I cold called somebody and it was they only spoke French, and I was like, okay, like clearly there's like there's like nothing that I can do. So when they're on when when someone is speaking in another language, like there isn't much you can do, unless like you could quickly get like voice translator and somehow do that. I mean, if some of you have done that before, that's amazing. What I do in this case is I I hang up the phone because there's nothing I can do, and then I followed via email and try to send an email in French or maybe find somebody who speaks French and try to say hey, following up on misalignment or like following up after speaking English you or something, and then I try to send an email that related to their language and some degree that's that's the way that I have handled it. I did can Quebec that much. After that, it's because I don't speak the language. So I was like, I'm gonna go some worlse I can actually speak the language. So that's that's me. That's how I helped. Yeah, I think picking your battles makes sense, right, Like if I can't, if you can't speak the language, I'm not going to call them. Um I am. We're really lucky here at congause we've got a bunch of multilingual individuals right here in the office with us, So you tend to know who the who speaks what language. Um. And it is a case of just chucking the phone at them and just offering them like half the commission at the other back end if it goes well. So um yeah. But other than that, I'm not sure. I'm not sure what else you can do here. Um um all right, if there's any other ideas, please comment that in the chat. That's what I want to know. Um all right, only half yeah, Joe, Look, I'm stingy.

I found the prospect on LinkedIn. That's half the work though. That's that's my view. Um, we've got another question. Let's um, let's jump to another question. Ah, here we go, perfect so um uh okay, my pronunciation of names is going to be awful and I'm really really sorry, but I think this is a he's thanks for joining us, and his question is what type of hook? Do you suggest? Any advice on hook's moment? I guess it could be clarify. I'm cris, what did when you think of hooks? Do you think about the intro or like post intro, because I think people think of hooks differently, so I'm trying to make sure you answer it correctly. Yeah, So for me, the hook would always be post the Hey, my name is Dave from cogn you know I'm calling the intro. Yeah, okay. I just want to make sure because some people think some people some people are like, here's the hook to like the intro, So that that's why I just want to make sure we were saying the right thing before I went into it. So I would say the hook your best hook. There isn't first of all, there isn't like a silver bullet hook. Let's just I'm gonna just put it there because if you're looking for that, it's just typically not gonna happen. There are frameworks of a hook that you could do to be successful. So this would I would write this down versus me telling you what to say. I'm gonna tell you what to do so you can find out what to say. So there's two components that you can go into. One is the like I would say, clue based hook. What I mean by that is as a salesperson, I always tell people you're a detective. Your job is defined clues that the person has on their LinkedIn profile, on their posts, or something that you found on the website that can be a that can be a clue to hook them in. So I'll give an example of what that would be. So you do your intro and they say, hey, like, why are you call me? Yeah? The reason that I called is I looked at your website. Looks like you're hiring about ten STRs right now. And typically when I see that that needs you're probably looking for some type of coaching or enablement so that you can ramp these reps accordingly. Right, and then I would go into my value problem on how I help with that. That would be a really good hook. Right. So that's a clue based hook. I found a clue from the website or from the person, and I looked at it. The second thing is I'll do a question based hook. So this is a question, and we heard this on if you are on the last call that we had. Someone had to do did an excellent job on this to asked a question that really opened up the conversation. So I might ask like, hey, like I'm curious, like I noticed that you're or you can even just ask a questions I'm curious like how are you currently onboarding your reps effectively to make sure that they're ramping, or how are you making sure that you're doing a cohesive social selling strategy that's lead into a consistent pipeline. So I'm asking a question that I know that they might have the answer to, but it shows that I know their role and I know their pain points. So when you're thinking of hooks, you can get even two frameworks clue based hook and a question based hook, and that should be able to determine what you need there. So David, curiously see what you're telling your team. No, I'd ad echo that completely. I think, um, we we like the typically statements followed by a pain point and and doing like more than one right, So typically people, um, you know, typically sells people are telling me that they're they've got great messaging, but they're not getting through to enough of our that they're not having enough conversations with their prospects. Um, you know, does that resonate and and UM, I think one thing that's been really interesting is like I've seen a lot of commentary on how UM, sometimes sales people have gone so far over when it comes like personalization, where they're going in with like, hey, I can see on your LinkedIn profile you like tennis. By the way, have you seen have you seen this? Um? You know, have you have you? Have you ever heard of cognism? Right? And the issue with that is there's no relevance, and so it just seems forced and it's like you're forcing some level of personalization to try and capture their attention. UM. So we you know, we're really we're really big or I'm really big on on you know. Ideally, you you can personalize it and you can see that they used they like tennis, and then you know, build a narrative around that that could really stand out. But ultimately, like relevance is going to be super important. And as you mentioned, focusing on pain, UM, focusing on potential pains that they might have, is that is a really good way of starting to open up the conversation from from my perspective. Yeah, that's an excellent point as well. It's awesome. Okay, we have got a perfect Josh, I can pronounce that name. I hope I haven't got that if if you I'm moving on all right, Josh, let us know. Um So, how would you respond to the classic this is my personal number, don't call me. I don't have that business umre available? Mm hmm. So, oh my gosh, this one. There's just so many ways ago about this one. So when you get this one, Hey, this is my...

...personal number, don't call me, you can just simp. There's two ways of doing this. You can simply follow up and say, hey, I didn't mean to catch you out the blue, didn't know that you don't like cold calls? What would be the preferred method of communication for us moving forward? Now that's not like my favorite one, but it but it allows you to just quickly shift into what you're gonna go into, which is like an email, right, and then you can figure out how to do it from there. Now, the other part of this is saying, hey, like I know that this was your personal number, didn't mean that I didn't mean to disturb you by any means, however, Uh, do you have like thirty seconds to just hear me out real quick? Uh? And then if this isn't relevant, you can hang up on me. But if it is relevant, we can schedule time and I won't cold call you ever. Again. That's a way that you can at least perresent your value prop and see if they're interested at all. And then from there, if you schedule time, then you know you won't ever, you won't ever get that call, right, you can go to another method of communication. Those are the two ways I hand that. MM, yeah, I love that. I tend to agree. I think like this is um obviously as a company that sells phone numbers and emails, and that is our business, Like we get this a ton um just because the amount availability that we have. And I think I think the first thing we need to recognize the tone. I'm kind of as Morgan said, like if if you have a prospect and they're like, oh, this is my personal number, don't ever call me again, you can tell that like seriously seething, like let's just respect that, like and and and be like I'm so so sorry I did not realize. I'll drop you over an email and instead, and you know, hope that they're like they don't kind of push back on the email part either, but if it's a little bit more like, hey, um, this is actually my personal number, like like you know, I don't understand why you're calling me, and it's more of like a question. You can kind of hear it in that tone. It's more of a question. I'd go down the second route, like like you mentioned Morgan, just more like UM, I mean often it's I'm so so you know, always I'm so so sorry. Um, we can't I couldn't actually tell whether it's a business or phone number. This is just the one that I have for you. UM, but you know what I do have you could have? Is there any chance like a for those seconds? But recognizing tone is going to be critical and making sure that you're like you know, you're going down the rioch, going down the right root with the prospect. I actually love that you said that, um, the tone piece, because I think that's that's critical right which path you want to go. So I definitely hope that you all like wrote that piece down from David. I'm curious how other people handle this as well. When you get hey, there's a personal number, don't call me, let us on the chat. But those are good answers. Awesome. They just keep calling that I was looking for for a second. Al right, cool, d back, how do you handle that? I'm just about to jump into a meeting objection? Just could I'm going to say my piece of this because I'm I'm incredibly passionate about this one. Okay. Um, if someone has picked up the phone, then they have at least ten seconds my I got. I never ever get called. Um, I never ever get called by my family members during the working day because they know I'm busy. So when they do call me, it usually means that it's something important. And just before this, literally one minute before coming on my dad, I got called for my dad and it was something really super unimportant. But I still had the ten seconds of time, even though it's just about jump on this to at least have like the tiniest conversation with him. Otherwise I just wouldn't have picked it up altogether. So that is usually nine times out of ten or ninety nine times a hundred, that is just an emotional reaction to them starting to work out the fact that you're a salesperson and people don't like to get sold to um naturally, and it's and it's a very emotional reaction. So UM. For for me, the way to handle it is, you know, based on those assumptions that I'm making, UM, and you'll be again like it goes back to tone. You'll be able to tell if they're really really busy. But um, you know, because it is emotional reaction, like the main thing is to validate their feelings, right, I'm so sorry, um, you know, like I'm so sorry to catch it a bad time. UM. Like I'll be really quick. That's basically how I answer everything because I kind of know that really it's you know, most of the time, it feels like it's more likely to just be a bit more of a brush off. I find and Morgan, you can definitely disagree with me on this. I find that a lot of people and what people are giving advice on is is saying, like, you know, um, just respect them and say that when would be a better time to cool um. But like you know, for me, I've got them on the phone right there and then, and I want to take full advantage of that because you never know, even if we organize something later like by the time we've organized like a good time and everything else, I could have just I could have done the hook right and started started the process. So that's my personal view. Um, something I feel very passionate about. As you could tell, I would love to hear what you've got Morgan. So, UM, if I were...

...to do if I was going to disagree with you, I would, but I do not disagree with you. I am also very fired up about this topic, and I want to paint a scenario if you all. This is when I was like, this objection is ridiculous. So everyone here like, what's thereone's rules? Can you just put on the chat? I'm just curious. I just want to see what we're doing with here. But everyone's probably like an a e ar str I mean, we have some managers in here. I think we met some business owners. What's your role? Just put in the chat. I just want to give you all perspective here. Okay, great, I'm gonna give you I'm gonna give you all this, Okay cool, I'm gonna give you this perspective. Yeah, we love it. So you're an s You're an str and. It's it's for it's both right, I'm just about to hop in a meeting, or I'm even going into meeting. You're an STR and you answer you're a manager. It doesn't matter enablement for for all three of you. But really, in a STR, you answer a random cold call you don't know the number, and your managers like where are you and you're like, yeah, I'm just I'm just on this random phone call right now, or even even worse, when people say I'm just in a meeting. Imagine you're an STR, you're doing a one on one with ther STR manager and you're like, hey, can you just one second? Can I just take this phone call where I don't actually know this person in the number? I'm just gonna answer this real quick. How many of your managers would be like what is going on? Or potentially fire this person? If you be like what is this person doing? Right? So, like do you gotta think about this? Like, as an STR, you would never pick up the phone in the middle of your one on ones. You would never do that in the middle of a meeting. So when I hear this I'm heading into a meeting or I'm even in a meeting, It's the most absurd thing I've ever heard like period, Like it just doesn't make sense. So to day David's point, you have to think about I have tended twenty seconds to talk to this person. Now what I do is is a little out there, David. I don't know if they're ready for this one. This is this is this is legitimately what I have done. This is what uh what What David already said is what one of my recommendations are. So I don't want to repeat. I just want to give you something a little bit outside the box. But I don't know if you're all ready for it. I don't know if they're ready, like I don't. I don't know if you're already for this one. So I mean, if you are, you can let me on the chat like ready, because like I just I don't know, Josh, I don't know. I really don't know already for this one. So all right, if you try this, hit me up. I'd love to hear your feedback. I've had people try this, by the way, and it's worked out for them, but in some regions it may not work as well. So I'm giving all I'm giving all the context before we go into this. So I got really frustrated one day, everyone kept telling me they were hopping into meeting in a meeting, and I was like, this is ridiculous, right, So this is really more so like when they're in a meeting, But even if they're heading into a meeting, you could do this as well and have some fun with it. So let's say they're in a meeting or heading to the meeting, but we'll use in a meeting because this is kind of serry similar. So if they say, hey, I'm in a meeting, I say, um, I'm in a meeting too, And then I say, I'm actually sitting here with my manager and we've been talking about this account and there's a couple of things that we've we've identified, and so if you want to put us on speaker and we can speak to the everyone in the meeting, we've been more than happy to have our conversation. Now that changes, like I'm telling you, that changes everything, because then all of a sudden, they're not in a meeting. They're like, uh, yeah, like I can chat like they're just not in a meeting anymore, right, So they yeah, put me on a speaker phone. Then I mean, I think about that though. Put me on speaker phone. If you're in a meeting, it's probably everybody you want to talk to you anyways, put me on speaker phone, I'll tell you what we're about. If it's relevant, we can meet with all of you. Now that you gotta have. You gotta deliver that in the right way. But like, that's why I said, this is not for everyone. But I have done it before. And like there is one person who did put me on speaker and they actually were at a meeting, and so that was that was everybody in one place and everybody want to place. So I was like, I was like, okay, I'm about it. But again, Joe, that's why I said, I gave a lot of contact before I said it. You have to be you have to deliver it in a certain way that is has a certain tone of certain confidence. But again, when you say, hey, I'm in a meeting too, I just put myself in their same position, like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna meeting too. Yeah, it's just like if we're just gonna do this conversation, we're both good. It's gonna be in a meeting. So again, Gutsie, it's bold, but I've done it before. Other people that have coach have done it before, h and I've seen to be successful. So that's awesome. I've just seen as well. While he was saying all that, I just took a look at the chat and Josh has put like an absolute killer one. Um, I'm just about to jump into a meeting, Josh is going. I hope I can get you out of that boring meeting, right. Tackling tackling objections with humors, especially emotional objections, is super super powerful. I absolutely love that one. Josh, thanks for sharing. Um okay, and also keep throwing in the stuff that you think, you guys think because as much as Morgan's a bit of an expert, like we we always love there's so many ways of spending these things,...

...so we want to hear them. Um, how do you create Erry? Thank you for pershing your questionnaire. How do you create urgency? If a client has postponed a demo multiple times? Morgan, do you want to what what? What would you do here? M hmm, they postponed the demo multiple times? This because into a different This is a little bit of different conversation. Um, you want you need to strip line them or two. I would send them a video because here's the thing. You there's not much you can create urgency on. If this is the first there's a lot of context here. If this is like a they postponed the demo and this is like the second or third call, maybe you have a chance to create some urgency. But you if you this is the first call, you don't have anything to create urgency on. You don't really know anything yet, so there's no way you can drive any tie of or create any type of urgency because there's nothing there because you haven't done any discovery yet. So let's just I'm gonna act as this. This is an initial call. So the first thing that you do is you strip line, and so what strip line is essentially okay, so after discovery, so I'm changing my answer. So what you need to do is then go back to what you did discovery on. So you should have uncovered a couple of things that have that will drive urgency. This is important for everybody to know. You cannot create urgency. You cannot do this. You can't create urgency out of thin air, and if you try to, it's not gonna work because what's gonna happen is you're creating urgency that's what you believe is urgent, but not what the prospect or future client is urgent. So they're going to ignore you or even get annoyed. So in order to get this you have two in discovery, you have to uncover what is urgent and then drive on that urgency. Now that is a completely different conversation, but in terms of the theory, think about uncovering and driving versus creating. You can't create it, but you can uncover it and you can drive it. So ultimately, what you're looking to do here is on your first call, find the things that would would be driving urgency and use those to get the person back on the line. You can strip line them and say hey, it looks like it isn't a fit right now, and say you know, and so they can you know, move forward and say hey it's not Or two you can always send them a video and talk about what you've learned so far and why Hey, look, this is a demo we need to do based on what you've learned. But you can't create urgency if you don't have anything from discovery. I couldn't agree more. I'm interested in what the chat or like the most amount of time someone's rescheduled um for them before actually turning up, because anybody got like, you know, a case where it's like twenty five reschedules or is like I really want to say anybody in the chat post that that'd be great to hear, but I think I think, like my, my, A piece of advice here is um mortgage using this word um strip lining, which I've never heard before, but um, I think, yeah, definitely referring back to any page you've identified. But at a certain point. Also the key piece of advice there is at a certain point, please remember that like you're you're gonna be they're wasting your time, right and your time is valuable and there are there are lots of other prospects hopefully who might actually take a demo if you focus your time there. So it's finding that balance fifteen Well okay, um, yeah, and and and I gain. And what I find, you know, some some of my str is doing sometimes is they you know, they have a prospect who just who just keep postponing and postponing and psponing. And that's because they have all the control and the reason they feel like they have all the controllers because we're like pandering to them like so much and so um and so yeah so and points and you know auga's called its strip lining. But do remember to change your tone from like hey, when would be a good time that will work for you and like you know, being that that nice you know, cuteness around like um uh salesperson, and refocus it and change your tone and just be like hey, look like you know, are you even interested in this? I've done that before where I've kind of I've I've you know, I've called a prospect up and I've said look, we've done this seven times now, Like I'm you know at this point like is this is this what we you know? Do you want it? Yeah? They? Do you even remember who we are? Um? So do remember at a certain point, please just um, you know, don't be afraid to change your tone and and call out the prospects and because you never know, so you I think we've all been there where we've got prospects that are just saying yes to you because they they yes. People there people pleasers that just want to say yes to a sales person. Um, but just are going to continue to not show up and and and waste everybody's time. So um, please do remember that I would like if intern to a benchmark, I suppose...

...another thing that I'm interested in is what people would say as a benchmark for how many times, um, you're willing to see postponements until you like you would kind of strip behind them as you say, Morgan, do you have any do you have like a benchmark? Is really case by case I do, UM, I would say, And this is an important point that we're making here for everybody. Please do not get emotional about your pipeline. Once you start getting emotional, you fall with someone way too many times, and then you start having what I called fireside chats. You don't want to have that just a waste your time, like we're talking about. So my number is three. Once it goes past three, unless there's a very unique case on like why I'm continuously talking to this person. Maybe i've worked here. For example, if I've worked with someone in the past, right, okay, I'll give them an opportunity. Maybe something's going on with him personally, that's a little bit different. But if I haven't worked with you in the past, three and you're gone, like strip line, looks like this isn't for you right now, I'm very direct and I move on to the next thing. There's like no hard feelings. It's just you're not ready for whatever this is right now. So I'm going to find out people who are mhm, the best kind of pains are the ones that exist right now as well. I think we talked about urgency, but one thing I really play off with, you know, we talked about a lot in our team is like finding pains that exist today so that we can keep referring back to that pain that exists that exists today, so that you know, obviously it should be an urgent matter as opposed to ones that might come foot way further down the line. Um, So do remember to try and look at you know, especially use use verbiage that's um you know, really highlighting that the issue exists today for the prospect. Cool. Should we move on to the next one. That's a great question. These questions, these questions are awesome. Hey are doing a good job with the questions. For sure, um Hunter, what a name that is? Is that the best str name? That is? Like, you were born to be an STRP. I'm assuming you're stup, you're born to be an outbound sales person that is for sure. Um, another objection, just send me an email. How we are how are we handling that? Morgan? Oh yeah, So look first and foremost, don't get don't get fired up on this one, and just send an email without asking a couple of questions. So the question that you want to immediately ask is, yeah, I'll see you an email. What exactly would you like to see? Yeah, I'll send you an email? What exactly would you like to see? Now? Why do I say that? Because when you say exactly, it is then like this is it? Like this is what you are going to see moving forward? Right? This is what I want from you? Because when someone said send me an email, it's way too broad because then you send them just like PDFs and documents that they don't inparently care about. So you need to figure out what do they want in this email that we couldn't solve on a call. Right. So the thing is is that if they don't get that to you, you push back and you say, hey, typically when I send people an email and it's super broad, it's not relevant to them and it just goes in the trash bin, and like, I don't want to send you something that's irrelevant and clutter your inbox even more, so, could you tell me what exactly you're looking for? At that point, people realize, oh, yeah, you're gonna send me something. I am going to delete it so I will give you something. So then they give you something, and then this is what we'd like to call the give get scenario. So I hope I'm hopefully all write in this process down this is the give get scenario. The next part of this is, Hey, I'm gonna send you that email of exactly what you're looking for. Typically, when I talk to people that are let's say a VP of sales, they find it beneficial to not only read this email and information on the gift to you, but also to set up a call so we can review it together. Are you free next Thursday at three to review that? So what I've done is I'm gonna give you the information. So I'm still sending an email, but I'm also in return, I'm getting a call scheduled, and now I'm accomplishing what you asked for. Been in return, I'm getting the meeting. And everybody wins, YEA, I would um, I think I would know exactly or we do exactly that here I think, um, I think maybe that's worth adding, is um some people or if you're getting the just send me an email or please send me an email objection a lot um or you're getting any single objection like a lot more than maybe your colleagues or other people, and it can be indicative of what you're doing beforehand. And so just just while we're on the topic, the most common reason why you're why people why prospects say just send me an email if it's not a brush off, is because you've spoken so much and you maybe over complicated things and they can't really process what you're saying in their mind, so they want before committing to any next steps, they want to see it like written down in an email. So for me, as I'm a real visual learner, um and uh and yes, so sometimes like if someone talks at me for too long, then it it's hard for me to process.

So just remember that as well, Hunted, Like, if you're getting that objection a lot, do also look at the start of your call beforehand, and and and just just make sure that you're not like over complicating um in the prosper like you're you're Yeah, you're not over complicating your product or service, um, so much so that the prospects are getting getting confused. UM. So yeah, cool, all right, what we've got next? I don't we don't get the choice. I think it just literally it's just like it's just yeah, we have because here we go. All right, yeah, and thank you for leaving a question. How many rejections until give up giving up calling the same prospect? Okay, I'll kick off here with just a really simple point. Um, there is definitely not going to be one rule for every single one of us here. And the reason is is because every single one of us has a a front sized I see different sized TAM. Total addressable market. If you have one person in your whole market just hypothetic of you have one person your whole market, um, and but that one person is worth you know, ten million for the business, then you're probably going to call them a fair amount of times, right, maybe over a very extended period of time, but you know you're probably gonna try and speak to them as much as possible. But if your TAM is absolutely enormous and it's you know, say you sell um, one of the biggest tams is any HR software for examples, because that could be for every single company could use it potentially. Um. Then you then you're thinking about the opportunity cost of chasing people that are rejecting you over and over again, m V just going and and speaking to the next one. So that would be my one thing before Morgan um gives gives his view, just one thing to consider is I don't think there's going to be an absolutely hard and faster a fair d on on this. And it does depend how many prospects in your in your time. Yeah, so I'm I'm gonna give two different perspectives, so rejections until you give a call on the same person. I also want to expand on this question a little bit and rejections on the actual call itself, because I think a lot of people might have questions around that. So if you're on the call on people are saying like no, not for me, right, you'll have had those people who just keep saying no, no. I always tell people give that the rule of three there. So if you're getting rejections, don't stop it the first one, don't stop with the second one. You get a third one that you need to like pivot and possibly go somewhere else. So I wanted to add that in terms of rejections and to call on the same prospect. I mean at the at the end of the day, Like I've had people where I've called them. Let's say I call them today, I call them the next Tuesday, they don't remember me. I call them the following Tuesday, don't they don't remember me? Right, So like most people just don't remember you. It depends on the level. Here's the here's the key about it. What was the level of rejection? If you call somebody and then they hang up on you, and then you call them the next week, and then you get to the value prop and then they hang up on you, and then you call them the falling Tuesday, and you actually get the meeting because you keep changing your value prop. Like I'd say, yeah, I keep calling because their level of rejection wasn't that high. But if the level of rejection is you talk to someone for three minutes and then they rejected you, you probably shouldn't call that person again because they're most likely going to remember that conversation because it was a little bit more detailed. So it's not more so the how many rejections, it's what's the level of rejection. That's the key that you need to pay attention to what was the depth and what was the length of the objection of the rejection. If you're just getting hung up on every single time you do an intro, you can change your intro for the past next five times until you get the fifth objection of the fifth intro and it's right, and then now you're in the value proplem. Now you close. So it's the level of rejections, not how many m hmm I've got. Uh, one of the we've we had some new starts as a couple of months ago and um, actually it's just reminded me of a story that they had where they jumped on a call, um maybe first week the prospect mentioned the campasitor of as who you know, Um, he didn't really kind of have that level of knowledge as as to like what our battle card is against that particularly compassor at the time. Um and did the care winter as manager reviewed the call with the manager literally immediately after, and uh, their manager was like, yeah, look um, you could have said this, this and this and fair pay to to I'm actually going to say his name because he deserves it. Charlie is the one of the new STRs here a cognism. He instantly picked the phone back up, called that prospect back up and said, Hey, just so you know, I'm you here. I'm really really sorry for calling you back. But when you mentioned competitor, this campasitor, um, I didn't know what to say. But I've been to my manager and she's told me all of this and and then went through those those um uh you know that those key points again. So um, yeah, you can definitely call people...

...back after being rejected. And maybe that's the other thing to consider is if, like you, you then realize new information. Um. And that might be through like a product development for example, like maybe the products changed slightly, and and you can revisit someone someone later because now it's relevant again. Um. So yeah, really really really good question. Yan. I love that. Um Okay, where are we at? Things just keep popping up. I'm worried that nothing's going to come up, but then it just keeps coming, It keeps coming, all right, um, gams, I hope I got that right. Um what is this gam where you fry? I'd love to if you're in the chat, I'd have to know whether that names from I've never never seen it before. And what is the success ratio of cold calling to getting a meeting in comparison to written outreach such as messages on LinkedIn, cold mainly etc. Um, I can give you some of our like cold hard day eater from cognism Um if that helps. Again, I would say that it's going to really depend on who you target. UM, if you you know, generally speaking or from my experience, if you target recruiters, for example, they're way more likely to pick up the phone because they're the nature of their role is so phone based and so their character is usually someone that wants to speak over the phone. Whereas if you, um, cold call a head of data engineering versus like emailing them, then then it might be different. And again it's similar on LinkedIn, like you find that the majority of people actively using LinkedIn tends to be more sales focused, UM, marketing focused, et cetera, comparatively to two people in in kind of back office roles. So there is going to be some variables there. But UM, if every conversation that we have cold calling, you know, we're looking at about you know, somewhere between. It depends on on each individual, but one between the ten twenty percent conversion rate on UM getting a meeting comparatively to our cold mailing, which we're getting about a four percent response from LinkedIn, is makes it almost impossible to track the data. But I know that it's you know, like we're not getting a response rate on on LinkedIn either, So um cold cold calling for us is by far and away our most successful channel we're getting. UM uh, you know, it's six all of our meetings are booked over the phone right now. But our I CPS sales and marketing, which again tends to suit. So yeah, that's the card cold hard numbers from us. But Morgan, you've worked with many companies, so I'm sure you have some really great insight here. Yeah, I definitely lean on the data that you presented. I think the most important thing is, uh, you know, I could come up with different metrics and data point view. Yeah overall, right, it be they're not going to be as relevant. The most important thing that you need to do is you need to look at what you are doing and keep track of your own success ratios because it's it's it's just very so much like from region to persona to team to company size, it's really hard to pinpoint this and and to and to do that for you. UM, the best place to go for this information actually would be HubSpot. If you really want to go look it up. You can go google HubSpot UM outbound things like outbound stats, and it tells you all these different things more than I can. What what I would encourage you to do, though, is be your own sample size. What is your current cold call conversion rate? What is your current conversion right through LinkedIn, through emails, etcetera. That will help you get a comparison analysis to out where to spend your time across the board. Be your own sample size, use your own data stets, and then lean and then lean on that. Awesome how that helps answer your question? It's relentless, all right. I don't want to say the else because the one comes so so quickly. Alright, Vick, thank you for joining us today and thank you for your question. UM, what are your thoughts regarding pain based or career progress type conversations around bringing your solution on board a K. This could really help you take the next step in your career if you were to champion the solution this I love, I love this in discovery, I don't I don't like this on a cold call unless you really unless you've built like really good rapporter. But coming on in a coal call as a hook being like, hey, I'm gonna help you take the next step in your career. You canna be like, I don't know you yet, right, they're gonna be like relax. On a discovery call, this is amazing. I've done this on multitude of different discovery calls that I've done when I was running a full sales cycle role. And one thing I would recommend here for you, Vick is looking at I mean, you're probably doing this looking at their LinkedIn profile. If somebody just got promoted, or someone has been in a role for...

...a very long time, those are two scenarios where you can ask that question. Or you've seen them in the same type of role for a long time, so maybe they've been like manager, manager, manager. Maybe you could be like, hey, like, what what can I help you to get to director? Maybe that's where I don't know if they want to go, but just asking the question on how can I help you personally advance in your career is an amazing question to ask people when you see those different scenarios. If they just join an organization. That means they're looking to make a splash up, potentially get a promotion. Right, someone's been in a position for a long time. They might be looking to move up, or they may not be. They're scenarios with people just don't want to do anything, but that's there. And then there's another scenario as well where you can look at it and be like, hey, like this person has been in the same type of role for a while. Let me then have a conversation with him on you know what from a role perspective and where they're trying to go. So I love this question. I would continuously do it if you can if those scenarios fit. Do you think Morgan just on this like, um, this is maybe more something you would switch to if um, perhaps you're speaking to someone with influence as opposed to decision making power, someone that's below below the line. That's a great point. Yeah, I'm not going to ask the c R, oh do you want to become the CEO, like like we're not having that convert conversation even VPS like I'm not having that conversation. This is someone who was in manager director role. They're looking to get into some type of executive presence. That's what I'm looking for. M. We've had tons of success recently and reaching out to UM, you know, individual contributors. So for us, obviously that's the individual frontline salespeople mostly as like an info gathering tactic to then help us UM, you know, like UM move upwards. Now, the rule here is that we can't actually book individual contributors in for demonstrations. We don't want our ad spending their time there. But really, like it's a great tactic for for you know, UM uh you know, moving up the ranks and and and you know, this could be a really great way of like getting individual contributors to champion it to their managers as well, especially kind of you know, like people that are just starting out of their career and actually career progression is what they're so totally focused on and hope by. So yeah, there's definitely some like really good, good, good examples of cases that you could use this for. But generally, I again I would agree with Morgan, It's not I wouldn't open a cold call UM talking about their career. UM. Cool. I love that, VIC, really really really great question. UM, what have we got next? It's coming. I'm like starting to look every single time, right, and from Joe, in a multiple service consultancy, how many of the services would you pitched prospects can do video, if tackles, since I've sold services and still due to that to a certain degree. So Joe, what I would tell you is that you you want to take an approach I called a dart approach when you're when you're well, actually well, when you're saying pitching, jell, let me, let me let me clarify before I go into my answer. Are you saying pitching as in like the potential like you're prospecting to get a meeting, or pitching like you're in the discovery call at this point? Because if my answer is gonna be a little bit different on this prospecting. Okay, cool, So what you're gonna do is you're gonna bucket each service and then you're gonna label under that what does each which problem does each service solve? And then what you're gonna do is you're gonna you're gonna You're gonna do a dart approach. So just like I'm I like playing darts, but the best way to think about it is each thing that you do right from email or when you know whatever it is calling, you're having a different DAT approach. So you're reaching out to somebody and you are offering them this service that doesn't work. Cool, you offer them another service, and another service and another service. You don't know what they're looking to accomplish yet because you haven't gotten on the discovery yet. So the key part is you want to use multiple different pieces of messaging and use it on a DAT approach to then see which one lands. You don't want to you don't want to. Also, you also what you don't want to do. Why I'm saying a dart approach is you don't want to have an email, and so here are five services that we offer. It's too overwhelming and it overcomplicates it for the reader. You want to say, hey, here's one that doesn't work, cool, here's one that is worked all right, whatever, And you keep going and throwing these darts until one of them is a bull's eye. So that's how I go about it, just to be Devil's advocate a little bit Morgan, because I've never sold I've always sold like pretty much one service essentially. Um is there not the danger of the data approach or like how would you I'm sure you get prospects that kind of say notes the first one and then that really you know, and they're like, Okay, no, we don't really need that. By do you find that happens more often? And I'll be interested in like how you kind of get around that a little bit. Yeah, that's a great that's a great point. So typically what you would like to do is based on u jil you you may have the data on this. You you probably do is there's a service that people...

...typically probably lean on more than the other ones. So we were to say, okay, we're just gonna lean on this one first, calling email, etcetera, to not over complicated for that person. Now there is a scenario where yeah, people have been like well I'm currently not interested into that. Okay. Then it's like, hey, like completely cool. There's other things that we offer. And then that's when you go broad. So then you're saying, here are the three different things we offer. Let's just say it's on a phone call because we're talking about quoth. So then it's like, yeah, like we understand you don't not into that. There's like three o the things that people are typically interested to one, two, and three. Is that currently in your radar? Yes? No? And then now I can pivot to the other three things. But I find that when you lead with the initial one that people really want to talk about that normally is the thing, and if it's not, then I can pivot to the other ones. So I start very like concise, and then I narrow That's the way that I typically coach people. However, there is another school of thought where people go super broad and then they narrow down. Ah, And that's just the way of doing it. But I'm thinking this in terms of female like I would spread it out in terms of the car I come and hey, this is what we help solve. Okay, oh okay, well here's the other three things that we also do as well. I love that. Thanks so much for the question, Joe. Question. Okay, Well, the best times to core prospects and how often another one I really feel really passionate about more every minute? Yeah okay, so um, yeah, I I think that the best time to call is um whenever you feel good about it, because a lot of the chances of conversion is based on on on your psyche, and I think just in principle, it's, um, you, I think people can get trapped by believing that, like the only good time to call is like a very particular time, um. And so you're you're going to end up in a situation where, um, you know when you're calling it the other time tames you're like, well this is a bad time to call. Um. And so just yeah, in general, like having the asstude for me having the astute of like it's it's a good time to call right now, or like, oh so all the time is the best way forward. I can I can literally tell you a million reasons why it's the best time to call is eight am, and the best time to cause at midday, and then the best time to cause at three pm. Right, Like I've heard, I've heard it all, But I generally would just say like every time is the best to call, saying that if you've got great tools, we were fortunate to be fortunate enough to be outreach customers there. It does actually give you some data back in terms of like when you're having success at certain times. But to be honest with you, it's something that we have but we don't act on for for that exact reason. So, um, I think you can grab that data. Um Morgan, I think you. It sounds like your echo by sentiments, sir, I call you. I don't think it's anything too crazy. I think at the end of the day, like, um, something that I've always just leaned towards is calling people right before they go. I mean it's virtual a now, so it's a little different. But calling people right before work right, like right, and maybe like around like eight eight times good and then right when people are starting to like sign off right, so like four or forty five, five forty five, those are good peak hours. But I think everything you just said a spot on. Yeah. I love Fridays personally. I love Fridays. I think that's the day that people waste because you know it's getting to the weekend. But Friday afternoons is the time where my prospects are kind of kicking back a little bit um and and you know I found connection reach drop if I got them on the phone, because there's two things there, right, It's like how many conversations I'm having about how effective those conversations are. And so if my prospects are a little bit more relaxed and more like to have a positive result as well. So, um, yeah, just you know you can, you can. It's it's easy enough, or it's theoretically easy enough to track the data. But generally, if you're if you're a manager or or to be honest, an individual contributor, I think try and not lean into it too much and have the mentality of like every time is a good time. Um cool? All right, thanks so much KK for the question. Is the next one coment here? It is? All right, Joe, what is the best way to handle gatekeepers? It's an age old um age old one that we we tend to get a lot actually, Morgan people, Yeah, we struggling. Yeah, we've talked. We've talked to those quite a bit, and you probably have all heard me talk about on how to handle this. I think we'll talk about theory as part of this and also as well as we wrap up here. Hopefully when I found this helpful, if you did, let us know in the chat. Uh. First, the theory is you want to think about the gatekeeper as an ally, right, You don't want to come in and be hostile and angry. I think that's where people go wrong. People go all wrong when they do that. So don't do that what you want to think about is how can I get them on my side right? And so what I always tell people how to approach this is when you are calling a gatekeeper. And I've said this again and over and over again, is you want to...

...ask a simple question, can you help me? This question is going to dramatically change the conversation because when you ask someone can you help me, They're gonna be like, oh yeah, how can I help? And in that way, whatever you say next, they're more prone to give you. They're more prone to help you. And whatever that is, whether it's referring to somebody, are sending you somewhere like, it doesn't really matter, they're going to be more willing to help you. So don't come into the situation being like, hey, I'm morgana Ingram from cognism. They're not gonna care and they're gonna treat you like every other rep and I don't want that for you all, So start the conversation with can you help me? In return, psychologically they will want to help you because you ask for help, and then you tell them what you want, whether it's a person, information, etcetera, there will be more open to hearing you out of that, I think, Um, I've always got to use this moment to plug cognism. Obviously, do you do your best to get actual mobile numbers UM from from UM there are plenty of data sources. Please check out all our compets as well, but you'll end up coming to commism anyway. But definitely look at your data sources if you can, and get one with those of mobiles. Because gatekeepers are tough. It is their job. I think, like, let's we've got to remember it is their job generally to filter out sales people. And one of the questions that you usually get from a gatekeeper is what is the purpose for your call? And my favorite line was always look just calling to schedule a meeting? UM that one. You know. I one thing one mistake that I find a lot of STRs do is is spend a lot of time actually pitching ending up pitching the gatekeeper UM and UM, you know they're they're usually not in that line of work that you're you know them that you're hoping to get through too, and therefore, UM that it's kind of a bit of a waste of time there, So just be careful on that. UM cool, all right, any should we move on to the next one. Thank you for that question, Joe, Yeah, flying, there's a lot of questions. UM Hi Nick, thank you for sharing. Thanks for tuning in. Um So, Nick is a real estate in real estate sas UM and texting seems to be the preferred method of communication among realtis. UM. I managed the sales team and I'm adapting to this, but still believe cold calling is important. And they suggestions to gain buy in for cold calling in this scenario. Mm hmm, gain buying buying from the team. Is that more so what we're what we're aiming at here by Okay? Yeah, So in order to get buy in from anything, people need to see the results. So I would find Nick, one to two people three if possible, on your team who's willing to take cold calling to the next level. So they're gonna probably do two to three x output than everybody else. And your goal is going to be using them as the say beacon of why are we should be doing more call calls? And by doing that then you're gonna start seeing more success across the board. So that's just something to keep in mind. M Nick. I'm interested in, um why you think cold calling is important if you know textings going so well, I don't know whether you've got time to quickly post that in, but yeah, I mean, like I'm a I'm a numbers guy. I think like often when I'm trying to champion things, like I prove it in graphs and data with the team. That's honestly, something as objective of as as objective as that is always super powerful. I've got graphs that I pull up all the time of like more the more calls you make, the more demos and opportunities you create, graphs that show that UM coming into our office makes you a better performer, which I know against goes against the grain, but it's why why I'm sat here right now. Um, I think you have the buzz. Okay, he's right, Yeah for sure. I think also as well, like this is this is a little bit different scenario you can do. Um, you can do a sin a sine based as well, Like you could give people more of in a ciner for booking demos through the call, right, you could give them an extra commission. I'm just throwing things out there that I've seen the past, that have been done. But I just like the champion, the champion piece. It makes it easier. People are like, wait, this person is doing better than me because they're doing this thing now. It just gets everybody excited. Mmm. And I think sometimes as well. I'm when you say, Nick, I think you have the ability to adapt the common ask more questions. I imagine that like maybe um, it's not just about the meeting, but actually the quality of the operator like opportunity that you're you're making. And sometimes STRs can be too focused on just like an meeting book for example, So maybe it's as well like highlighting the stuff further down the funnel that might be better, might perform those KPIs that performed better, um, when uh, we're having like an initial call first, as opposed to just focus them on the the meetings booked. It's a really really...

...interesting one. I think. I think there's a bunch of managers in here that will be having like really similar problems. So I'm so glad that you you brought this one up. Nick. Well, I don't know whether you've got any other points, so whether we've got time for literally one more, I mean, we have one more that we can do. Yeah, that's that's a quick one. Okay. So from deep back. When someone agrees for a meeting, it doesn't show up, how can you politely get them on a call again when they pick up? Mm hmm, okay, so they picked up the phone. I think, Um, the best way to do this is I would schedule the meeting first and foremost within forty eight hours if you can, so they remember. Most people, most people don't show up because they don't remember, and there's probably certain things that you This is there's probably certain things that might not be happening why people don't show up. So what I would do is I would say, hey, UM, looks like that we were both busy and we weren't able to make this meeting. One is see if you would be open to rescheduling it so we can talk about X. Yeah, I'm open to it. Great, let's schedule you a time. It's Tuesday, right now. Let's schedule a time tomorrow Wednesday at like, I don't know, three pm, right, Great, So now we've got time on the calendar. My next step would be, all right, now that we have time on the calendar, I'm gonna send up I'm gonna send a like a like an agenda before the call to let them know what the call is going to be about, so they don't miss it. Most people, the reason that the show rates are super low, it's because they don't send what the call is going to be about the next day. Each person that you're talking to, that's the decision maker, has a million meetings a day and their whole goal is how can I get meetings off my calendar so I can actually do my work. So if you're not telling people why they should show up to the meeting, yeah, they're not going to show up because like why would I. So those are just things that you need to be thinking about. As you get the person back on the line. Really interesting, I would just add, we've got thirch two seconds. I'll try to make this as quick as possible, but I would just add, um, that one thing that we're doing right now is once we get the agreement on the meeting, we're actually giving them an out and we're saying, hey, just by the way, is there anything that any reasons why you might not show up to this meeting? Um? And by giving them that out, like usually you know, usually they say no, no, it looks great and it reaffirms it in their mind. But it also means if they have like even slight bits of doubt, they're going to tell us. And that's been super effective and I think it's especially effective in rescheduling. So maybe something that you can you can try out deep back and let us know. Um, all right, I think that's all the time that we have available today, more than any any final remarks. No, that's it. Let us know in the chat if you enjoyed it today. Uh, you know, we are continuously doing these well, we are. I think we have one in the next in the next next two weeks. You're coming there, it's coming soon. So if you enjoyed it, let us know in the chat. Obviously we love everybody's feedback and continue this going. And yeah, we'll see you all next time. Yeah, thank you so much for everyone tuning in. We genuinely really appreciate your time and as as more than to.

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