Revenue Champions
Revenue Champions

Episode 72 · 3 weeks ago

72: Sales enablement success (with Galem Girmay, EMEA Revenue Enablement Manager at UserTesting)

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week, Ryan Reisert, Subject Matter Expert @Cognism is joined by Galem Girmay, EMEA Revenue Enablement Manager @UserTesting as they discuss her journey from Sales Development Representative to Account Executive to Sales Enablement. In this episode, Ryan and Galem talk about the importance of sales enablement, getting creative with sales and having meaningful conversations and connections and more.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Revenue Champions with me and your host Ryan Reiser. Today we have a very exciting conversation with Gollum gear May, the revenue enablement manager over a user Testing. This is going to be a great conversation as we dive into the journey from sdr A into revenue enablement and all sorts of conversations from the tech stack, video and even Legacy Buckling. You're going to enjoy the show. Welcome to another episode of Revenue Champions. We're super excited to have today's guest. It's been a while since I've had someone in the pre show get me so amped up about our interview. So excited to welcome Callum to the show. Callum, who are you? Who you be? Your revenue enablement manager over at User Testing? But you know what do you? What are you doing this world? Who are you? Welcome to the show. Yeah, thank you Ryan, I'm so excited to have this conversation with you. Um. It's a very philosophical question, like who am I? It's such a big question I ask myself very often. Um, But currently I am working as a revenue and woman manager for User Testing, and I'm mainly covering emia and supporting APEX. So what does that mean? Because in enablement we can have so many different functions and responsibilities and for me in this role and at this company, h I do a little bit of everything. So I get the opportunity to be involved in onboarding, I get to be involved in like how we utilize our different tools for tech UM. I get to do a little bit of everything, which is really exciting because that gives me such a broad understanding of this business and the people who are in the business. So that's what I really enjoy currently about my role. And I get to do like I get to be creative. I get to create interesting courses for the reps and you know, just be in it. So that's what I really enjoy about this type of role. Fantastic. Well, I'm really excited for the conversation today because you're coming from a perspective that we don't really see often in this enablement space. I know it's it's newer ish, but sales operation sales enablement has been around for quite some time. But your background is actually coming from being an account executive UM and that allows you to move into this role and it's pretty clear that being involved in all these different areas is what it really excites you about it. But what are some of the traits that, uh, you were able to bring from being an a E towards sales enablement? Um that really helps you make that that that lateral shift in into your career. A few things, and I think one of them is just a mindset about being entrepreneurial and being able to see opportunities where they might not be opportunities very clearly. So for me early on, I recognizes that one of the ways was to go outbounding and to find opportunities because they weren't always coming to me. And so that's how it started for me. From earlier than being an account executive, I was a b DR. That was my first introduction into tech sales, and I had done like retail sales in the past, but that's nothing closed to what SASS sales is. So for me, it was just learning that understanding that. But um, really it's just a matter of being able to be entrepreneurial. In my opinion, I think that was an advantage for me and having that passion, but then also being having the ability to have the guidelines of a business to show you this is how we do business. And so that was like a great opportunity for transformation in my career to get to that next level. And also I think the importance was just following my heart and following the journey that I want to go into, because what people don't know, when people didn't see, was that when I went from account executive, I actually had the idea and the vision to go into like a sales management sales leadership role, and I was stuck on that. I was like, this is the path, this is what I want to do, and I couldn't get any opportunities. You know, no one was like yes, No one were really bought into that, and it was frustrating because for me it was like, well, I think I have all the skills, but clearly I don't and or maybe it's not in the way that they would want that to show up. So the transition into sales enablement also came from a place of Okay, how can I find a different route to get to the end goal. That's how I was thinking a year ago. And now I'm in this place where I've had this experience, in this exposure where I really enjoyed my role. I really like being in sales enablement. Um. And that's not to say I won't go back to being an individual contributor or that I will...

...move forward or move on and do something different. Um. But yeah, hopefully that answered your question. Well, it's interesting because you you had this ambition of wanting to go down this path b DR a sales per ship. You hit a bit of a wall, uh, and you know, an opportunities opened up and now it's clear that you're pretty passionate about it, gets you excited, and you're learning a lot of skills and um, working with other apartments. I'd imagine we'll get into that a little bit here, but um, do you see yourself wanting to still go down that path having been in this role now for a little bit, or are you is your perspective opening up a bit more like, Hey, maybe there's there's now other areas I could explore outside of just getting straight into the sales leadership role. No, the thing is like the world had just opened up for me in enablement because there's so many different paths and opportunities to take, and I think the importance is to just follow the path that aligns with your path shan and your skill sets and the fit for the company. And I think also when we talk about the transition from one role to the next role or from one part of a job to a different type, is being able to be flexible and being able to take in other people's point of views and seeing, Okay, if you see this path working out for me, I'm gonna see it quite yet, but let me try it, you know, having that willingness to try it. Because when I was selling, we do have that ability to test and try different things. If we do a B testing, we get that opportunity. But do we create or get that opportunity outside of ourselves roles? And most of the time we don't, or maybe we're scared to take that next step. Yeah, it's really it's really interesting how life works sometimes, right, one thing happens and you think it may not be exactly what you're hoping for, but then all of a sudden, by just giving it a shot, all these other doors open up. And um, we're in a really exciting space right now, especially especially around tech stack and sales enablement and just all the the different opportunities that presented because there's just not that many people who have gone through really truly being an str in the age of all this modern technology, then having that advancement to being a REP as a sales enablement person, which is really hard to find these days. You've got great perspective on you know, not only just the tools themselves, which you know you have to have, like, hey, how does the tools work within the ecosystem, but the impact those tools might have in the roles and most importantly both roles, which again it's it's a very rare person these days that that that's in your seat. And um, as you think about you know, you mentioned you're doing all these different things, but um, there's also this like crossover now with not just the sales Enablement Tools stack helping for sales development and UH sales, but also customers support and maybe even marketing. There's all these crossovers. Are you seeing that with your team at a user testing as well? Where these tools are kind of having a crossover into the other departments outside of just the traditional sales route. No, it does, um, and so we have like for example, we look at Sales Navigator. All the reps are using Sales Navigator and there are other features with seals Navigator like Team Links and having those abilities to make introductions that we definitely expand into other departments because that's how you can get higher and wider in an account to your prospect thing is if you have other people who have those connections and can make the introductions. So absolutely, I think it's the responsibility of enablement to give the opportunities to other departments where there's in need and a fit for it. And this is an ex bowl like Team Links, Intro and Seals Navigator that I definitely think they should have access to. It's just so it's so interesting that you know, if you were somebody in this role without the perspective of like an SDR for example, which is that frontline seller, it would be very difficult to have that perspective like hey, Lincoln, Sales Navigator is for sales development reps to you know, build list, to do with some research and be more maybe open up the channel. We're like, well no, in addition to that, we could bring in other members of the team to help go higher and wider. Um that's not a that's not a perspective that somebody that wasn't in the role might might think of. And that's just one of many benefits that you have sitting in the role. UM. To me, I've seen that the text that get more and more advanced, but also almost like overly complicated. UM. When it comes to how you think about your stack this this is kind of not one of the precamped questions, but I'm curious to think about what are the like core element So the tools...

...that you think are just super vital um taken into consideration what you know having gone through those roles and um and maybe some of the stuff that you're using and enabling today, Yeah, we have that magic wand what are the key elements of the stack? Yeah? Um. First of all, I think it really depends on the business needs and their budgets because we've been kind of spoiled when it comes to using tech. There's so much out there and if we don't know how to use it, then it's just sitting there and which is wasting money. And so for me, it's like taking a look at Okay, what's the need and what's the budget? How how much do you actually need and what can you afford? So I think at a bare minimum people should have access And this is just my opinion and how I would like it if I was a seller. But I think at a minimum, people should have access to sells Navigator. They should be on LinkedIn already, UM, they should have access to videyard and some type of tool to like book meetings that could be like Chili Piper, Calendar Lee UM. And then another one that I know, and why I'm bringing this up is because a lot of people in those roles early stage, you know, sales development, UM, they don't. They're not always comfortable or confident with how to communicate. So having Lavender, for an example, would be really helpful for them. And then it sells engagement tool whatever that platform looks like. UM, and then of course an opportunity to find those contacts. So I like cognism. Your you guys are one of our vendors, and I have a really great relationship with our CSM. So shout out to Samantha Brocklehurst. She's been amazing. Um was that sorry that out? Yeah? No, she's She's been absolutely amazing. And so cognism is another tool I really enjoy working side by side with sales navigators, so we can create the list and seals Navigator and then enrich and ends that data incognism and that just expands the opportunities even more. So those are some of the basic tools I would use right now. So just to recap that you've got sales Navigator or LinkedIn power by sales Navigator, you highly recommended the definitely on LinkedIn if not sales navigator, videyard or a video tool, calendar, ring system for scheduling, Lavender which if not Lavender, maybe some sort of other AI tool that can help with writing uh uh sales engagement. These are the sequencer sales engagement workflow management tool on top of a CRM. I'd imagine we didn't we didn't manage that. It's kind of like table stakes, right and then and then data, Yeah, anything else that you can think of that's super primary or is that the legit need to have you're not, I mean, you're not thinking there today if you don't have it. I think the one we skip was the obvious one, the CRM, which cr are you using? But that's where all the data goes and comes from, So that's obviously super critical. But yeah, that's like the bare minimum for me. Yeah, and so I think I think that the interesting thing about the stack today is that you know, used to be maybe CRM, maybe otherwise like a spreadsheet, a good old fashioned paper and pen and then a telephone, you know, And so now all of a sudden you go from that to one to three, four, five, six, seven. More tools. Actually I want to add one more and that would be a tool so that you can listen to your calls and cultu yourself. I think that's critical for development. I think to think these they're calling these now it was conversation intelligence, and now I think they say it's revenue intelligence as they expand their categories. But those this conversation that's super important. Absolutely h How blessed are are you as a SAS enablement leader and may be cursed at the same time. Lots of technology potentially more data, but that sounds like a lot to enable train on and make sure people are using. If that is in fact that right text stack. How much of that do you think reps are truly utilizing to the full capacity if they're enabled. Um depends on the role. I think sometimes you can also see if you have a great partnership between a b DR and a then they can tackle and use the tools differently, or one could use it and not the other. So that doesn't mean that you're constantly every day using all a tools or you're you have all that up and that's that's what you're doing all day long. You may not, you know, you may not use something to create a video with every single day. You may not I'm gonna be part of your prospect thing to create videos and send them out every single day, but maybe a few times a week. So that's when you need to know how do...

...you utilize that tool? And same thing if you have um something to put your sequences or cadences in, then you need to pay attention to that on a regular basis. And so I don't know, it's it's hard to say like how much people should use something versus how much they do in reality, I just think it's important to be mindful from from my point of view and enablement with the amount of things that we throw at them because there's so much. And if you're in your your day to day role and you're selling, you don't really have all that time to really go into depths. So what's important and how can you summarize and highlight and just show this is what you need for this purpose. And what I've also acknowledges an enhablement. We do so much and we have this vision of what we can create and what we can do different things and training and really enable our sellers. But I think what I've learned over the last year is that all of that is great, but it really doesn't matter in the eyes of a rep until they need what you're doing. So someone can be like, I hear what you're saying, appreciate the training, but it's not that relevant until it's top of mind for them. So at the end of the day, I'm serving the sales reps. So I don't get offended when someone is like not paying attention or that wasn't useful, because I know at some point it will come back and they will need that information or they will look for that information and we haven't. Yeah, I mean, it's it's a lot to deal with. There's lots of different personalities UM and obviously as you as you start to expand your business and the complexities of your go to market expand UM, having the core stack in places is pretty fundamental. And you know, one that steps out a lot to me from You've mentioned it several times right now is video and you did a post earlier this year where you talked about video as a part of your outbound motion, but but also to communicate um internally, I'm actually somebody uses it all the time. Just before this recording, I was we were in like a stand up, was like, I'll just you know, I'll do a little video for and send it. So it's like these like little micro trainings, right, Um, But I'll do the same thing in the sales process where uh, you know, instead of just sending an email and maybe a PDF or a website link, um, I'll also include a video of me going over that information so that my prospect can determine which format they like to consume that information, but sharing internally as well. Now it's my voice on top of it and send it. There's so I found that to be extremely valuable. Yeah, how do you use video one an outbound because that's been a big part of it. Like, do you have any best practices or tips that you're you're using to train your team up on. Really curious to see how you might be using it on the outbound side these days. So from from the outbound perspective of utilizing video, um, we have obviously best practices around that. And the one thing I encourage people to do is just be yourself when you're doing a video, because a lot of the times, and even when I started, I was just so caught up in the moment and in my head that it was difficult to perform and it was difficult to talk. And even though I knew the information and I had the knowledge, I was just like, Oh, how do I how do I communicate? How do I get my point across on video? Because it's weird, it's it's weird to talk to yourself and talking to a video. But one thing that helped me was actually doing a video diary. This is not have nothing to do with outbounding, but it has something to do with getting ready to do outbounding with video. Because if you're not comfortable in front of the camera, if you haven't got that exposure to speak in front of a camera, then you're not going to be comfortable and it's going to show and you're gonna seem as if you don't know what you're talking about, or that you're not confident in yourself or in your product, and you don't want that. You don't want that perception, and so you need to practice, because you cannot fake enthusiasm on camera, you cannot fake confidence on camera. You are who you are. You need to practice that. So I think a lot of people should do more of role playing. They should do more of video recordings for themselves to begin with, and then also share that across to other people. So I always say, like, depending on where you are, I can't diagnose an entire group of sales rep and say everyone followed this path. But there are general best practices and that's great, but you have to understand where people are coming from and what the actual challenges with video. It's not to create it, it's usually something else. It's not that they don't have enough product knowledge, it's something else. So that's that's where I would start on that conversation. So just getting come triple is so important.

Uh, and that step one. And once you feel comfortable, then you can naturally use you know who you are as a seller to come through in a new format. Um. I really like that. On the internal communication side, what are some of the things that you're doing, um to use video? Yeah, quite a few things. I love videos. So anytime I get an opportunity, I'm like, let me, let me do this really quickly. UM, So I do it like following up from meetings, UM, after I speak with reps or I speak with leaders. My fault with the video not always, but if it's something that makes sense, or someone might have missed that call and we didn't record it for whatever reason, super helpful to follow up in an email with the video or just send the video over slack. Um. You just have so many abilities and opportunities to share that across, not only to the intended recipients like that you were talking with, but also other people on the team that might find that valuable. And so I you said, very frequently, same thing if I have, um, you know, conversations with vendors. We can also communicate over video and share you know, screen sharing. I've done that quite a lot where I'm struggling somewhere and it's difficult to communicate what that challenges. So the best thing to do is just like visually show them this is the challenge, and you know what, like it's it's interesting because I'm so used to this easy solution, because it really is to just do this that I kind of expected that to be a general thing that everyone does this, you know, like anybody to do this, but they don't. And so when I sometimes deal with other people or other let's say a vendor, and they don't have customer support in the way of sharing, you know, they can't always jump up, jump on a zoom with you and and help you. That's when I take the opportunity to record a video and send that to the customer support and say this is the challenge that I'm having. Yeah, it's crazy. You you mentioned that it's so innate to you, but you realize that others might be doing that. I can't tell you how many times I'm getting messages that come in where it's either just text trying to explain it with like little arrows like click this first, click that, and then someone might take that to the next level where they've taken a screenshot and then they have those all whether they're actually putting the arrows in like heke here, or you could just click the Chrome extension and record your screen and that's really really impactful. Yeah, but a lot of people aren't taking advantage of that use case. Um, I love that you've shared that with us. Uh, It's so powerful both internally and externally. Right in sales, all the way through to support. So even if you think about our day to day lives, like I use video. I send videos to my family, you know, like congratulating them on something or on their birthday or whatever. I sent a lot of voice messages as well. But video can also be used in other ways in our own lives. Like, for example, my sister came to look after my dog one weekend when I was away, and I knew she was going to have questions like how does this work? How does that work? She's never stayed, you know, by herself in my apartment because I always do whatever we need to do, so she doesn't know these things. So I made a video in advance to show her this is how it works, and I just step by step showed her and then sure enough, when that wee can came around, she asked me a question, how does the washing machine work? I don't, I don't get it. I was like, here you go, here's the video. She's like, oh you should When did you do this video? I was like, I did that like a week ago, because I knew you were going to have that question. So this goes back to like if you have that mindset in your life and if you have that mindset early on to help people ahead of time, then you can anticipate. Just like when you're selling, you can anticipate in objection coming, you should be able to handle that objection and you should be able to be ahead of that objection. I love that your sale or revenue enablement by day, um apartment enablement by by by side hustle. There's like a whole new industry there. You're just shooting those with your your smartphone and you know, acture those. That's that's super smart. I can't tell you how many times that would have saved I literally wanted to do, like I want to do a handbook, you know, for so many different things in life, like this is how it works, this is how you do it. But also because this is just a person that I am, Like I like to do things like I like to have information organized in a structured way. So that's just how I function and I try to improve, like how I communicate with people, not only my colleagues, but also my friends and my family, Like how can I communicate better? How can I get my points across in a more clear way? Yeah, well, that transition nicely into something that we're...

...pretty passionate about here at Cognizant, and you've you're kind of talking about like, I'm trying to get better conversations. I'm trying to have more meaningful engagements with people. You know, we talked about the tech stack and all the pools you might need and here's some ideas of how to like get conversation started. But at the end of the day, we need to have meaningful connections, meaningful conversations. UM. And so we I think we we we share a lot of commonalities there. But what does a meaningful conversation or a connection look like to you in your world today? UM, it means that you're being thoughtful and you're being mindful of the other person that you're trying to communicate with. UM. That's the that's the basis of it for me. It's just being mindful and being able to connect also on a human level, because a lot of what I see people trying to do utilizing LinkedIn messaging or self Navigator in males is they just pitch and they don't have a conversation before they get to, you know, solving a problem or a perceived problem. And there's a lot of assumptions and that's like if you if you don't have as many assumptions, if you don't come in hot and pitching that, and you rather think about how can I connect with you Ryan as an example, as a human being, What's something that I can relate to? So that's where it would start for me. And if I was a seller right now and I was trying to get to you or let's say cognism, I would look at you as an example I was trying to sell to you, I would be like, Okay, what is Ryan into that I can actually relate to? And one of the things I noticed was during Halloween, I think your son was dressed as the Grinch and your daughter as what's her name? Uh, the girl in the film. My daughter pronounces that as Cindy Woo woo. But yeah, that's right. Yeah, look at you doing some research. But that that's the other point to having meaningful conversations. You do need to be invested you. You also need to be like emotionally invested to a certain degree in this individual that you're trying to connect with and bring up something that's relevant. So for me, it would have been like, hey, like I noticed your kids, Uh where you know the Grine for Alloween. I actually love the Grinch, which is absolutely true. I have an entire outfit grine outfit like pajamas, um, and I just bought new slippers, so I would have probably sent you a video with the entire outfit and just be like I love the Grine, Like let's chat, you know, and bring yourself to the meeting, like I don't know, just humanize it a little bit, you know, be like how you would connect with a friend, because when people miss it's like, all of a sudden, we step into this role of being professionals, and it's almost like we have to remove our personalities and remove parts of ourselves that make us who we are, which isn't the you know, the case we shouldn't do that. Yeah, I think is that it's really interesting, especially on the social side of things, there's this uh blending of what used to be very corporate and uptight and almost like an extension of email communication. That's what that's what you still see versus what should be a little bit more social. I mean, it's a social network, your social networking, and there is both that very personal and professional side of things, and um, you know, if you're using your brain and having situational awareness. The type of tactics you're talking about right now makes so much sense. Yeah, sometimes sometimes I feel like that can be forced to where it's almost like people are going too far, and it's like, you know, they're they're going so far to stretch something around relating it back. What I liked about what you just said here though, is you're just using it to just start the conversation. You're not trying to then blend that into the pitch, which was where everything's at right It's almost like the research goes into how can I pitch you? And I'm trying to personalize to a pitch versus this slight difference that I heard with you, which is I'm just trying to start a meaningful conversation. I'm trying to make a connection. Then we'll see if there's then we'll see if there's maybe some business to be had after the fact. That's massive. Why do you think that so many reps are having a hard time bridging that gap? You know, you use a tactic like that, and I know that a lot of reps would say, Okay, so now I'm gonna go and do these It's like these personal things, but they're trying to relate it back into a song to pitch you something, or a gift to pitch you something versus like a song because might have made you laugh and then we started conversation, right, the pitch can go...

...later. What are your thoughts around that? Because I think I think you, I think I think we're on the same wavelength here, But it's really yeah, the the issue is that most people are not playing the long game just looking at this is what needs to be done right now. I need to get another meeting, I need to get another conversation. I need to get whatever that the pressure is and a lot of people are under pressure. And if you're in the boat of this doesn't come naturally to you or uh, you're not sure which direction to take it, and all you have is a goal in mind, which might be I need X amount of meetings this week, and the quickest way to get there is to pitch a lot of people so I can get at least somewhere with it. But what you miss is really the opportunity to play the long game and have that come full circle. Whether that is in a week or two or two months, who knows, But the goal should not be I just need to book the meeting. The goal should really be let me have a meaningful conversation, so that way we can have another meaningful conversation and another one after that and continue on the and then bring in more people to the conversations along the way. I think that's the missing opportunity is just a distress, the anxiety, the pressure around kpice and performance. Yeah, it's huge. I think that one of the biggest things that gets missed in an outbound in general, you know, is that the intention of an outbound connection, whether it's a call connect and email whatever it might be. Most people are trying to drive that to a meeting. That's the KPI everyone's around like meeting first. But the reality is is there's this funnel then we have to go through if I mean, I like to visualize the funnel, but relationship funnel connection for funnel, right, And the first thing is awareness, Like we don't know each other yet at all, Like, you know, let's become aware of each other and then and then we then we can start to gather some information around. Ah, is there a fit? You know, if this is a business thing, is there a fit now? If not? Now in the later that's the long game versus the short game as well. So connection awareness first, gather information, then conversation like conversion to whatever that actual first step might be in your funnel. Oh, this actually might be relevant. What do we want to do next. Let's take this from a casual introduction conversation to a more sales drive conversation. Or maybe it's a maybe it's I can help you in some other area, let me you know whatever. It might be long game, short game. But those first two pieces are are always crammed into each channel, right. I love your example now right now with the grinch thing too, like, hey, we would have connected we to become buddies. Whether I'm a fit for what you do right now, it doesn't really matter at this point. We're professional us that are in the sales enablement, sales acceleration, sales improvement space. Okay, so that's a connection we probably want to have whether we're ever and work together in the part. So that's that's the long game of short game. But I see it also on the phone. I don't know how much calling you your team is doing too, but so much of it is the exact same version of the pitch slap mm hmm, right, I call, maybe I have a funny opener or something, and then I then I pitch slap you versus trying to establish a true two way dialogue and then putting you at the at the heart of the conversation. Um. Do you guys do a lot of cold calling on the team right now? UM? Curious to see if that's something you're seeing your team struggle with as well. We do have individuals reps who are cold calling quite a lot um. And then you know, we have others who are more comfortable on other channels. And I think this is normal. I think this is what's to expect because not everyone has maybe the personality or they don't feel comfortable even though they might have given it a shot, you know, to do a call or do video. They might say this isn't for me generally, I am not into this because I hate being on camera. And it's like, okay, well, then maybe voice messages is your thing, and that's what people tend to forget, like that it's only one or the other. You can either excel on the phone or you can excel on emails and that's it. But it's like you do have so many other channels that you can also utilize and be good at. Um. But yeah, we do have some some King and Queen cold callers for sure. I just see this like it just translates so well across all these channels of all right, well, let's let's start with this meaningful engagement first and build into um, you know, from awareness to information and then maybe some sort of convert vision. But we...

...gotta we gotta get there first together along this journey and um, you know, everyone is going to receive any channel of communication differently, and so an awareness is key both on not only hey are you aware of me? But being aware of the situation right, how are they reacting, what's what's happening with eternality and approach, etcetera. But also if you have you have to think about it from the point of view of Okay, what am I trying to achieve an establish and how does the other person on the other end receive that? Because maybe you Ryan is someone who hates email, but you love phone conversations or zoom conversations and that's how we should connect moving forward, you know, or maybe you're like nope, text me like or send me a video like, that's how I want to communicate. Okay, great, but the challenges that the problem is that people aren't asking the question. It's not like they're having the conversations. Most some do do this really well, but you know, just simply ask them like, hey, what's your preferred method of communicating? What do you like? Because you know, so many people online are not asking me that relevant question and it's frustrating because they keep hitting me up in my LinkedIn messages and I suck at responding. It's just I do. And I when I was selling, like emails, was never my goal to that was something I you know, we're falling back on our utilized emails from follow ups with my projects. That's or like videos that were embedded and give some context. But I never that was never My goal to was always the phone because I knew that I have a better chance to connect with someone if I can share my thoughts outline, if we can have a conversation, if you can hear what I sound like, and you know we can, I can get so much more information as well from that conversation than I could ever get from an email. But that's my preference and I don't think it's fair in my position in enablement to say everyone go do this because it worked really well for me, because it may not work for other people as it did for me. Yeah, I mean, you gotta let the data drive the outcomes for a rep. Given the tools, let them run after it and see. You know, at the end of the day, how many meaningful conversations can they be having every day? Meaningful connections, meaningful conversation conversations to me? Anyways, that the metric that matters most. Yeah, and if somebody is able to, you know, have success in having true that I need to be true meaningful connections and other formats than other channels than than fantastic, that's like, that's great. Umah, I know we're going back to the video again, but I think this is an interesting concept. We're like, hey, maybe you're not comfortable on camera, but what are your thoughts on You know what I like about video too is you can choose not to be on camera but still use video, right, so you know, I can I can use a screencast, you know, screen share, recorded screen share as as as a really meaningful way to to communicate as well. So if I'm some who auto like likes voice messages. Yeah, but not being on camera. Well, now it's sending you to take yourself out of the camera and you got uh an animated voice message. Yeah, So I mean you're just there's all different ways that you can leverage these different channels for communications. Um And at the end of the day, it's about creative. You have to be creative. And this is going back to beginning of our conversation, like what helps you? What helped me with the transition from being a self rep into enablement is also the ability to be creative, to be able to think outside of the box. Like as an example, like when I was to wrap at one point, I didn't have any tool to record my calls so I could coach and help myself, or so that my manager could coach me and help me. I didn't have that tool, you know, to use at my disposal. So I was like, oh, okay, how do I get around this then? Because I've just started in sales, obviously I need to improve, I don't know how, but I have recorded. So I just went around it, and I found a different way to record my conversations and listen back to them. You know, you have to find ways and opportunity, so you can help yourself first. Yeah, it's so funny you bring that up. My very first sales role. Um. I started my sales career in two thousand and eight, right the the last recession, which was really fun time to get started. But before this big tech boom, and um, I had an old call like those old recorders, you know, like the voice memo recorders. This is even this is even before the smartphone was really popular, right because I found just coming the market so literally like the little tape, you know, And and I would just put my my desk phone on speaker phone and I would record those and generally I'd be making I would be like one of the last ones in the office. I'll be making calls after hours. And then I bring those, uh those recordings home with me and listen back on them. And that's how I really improved. Um And it's so funny where the text gone.

Now we have we have this luxury of just kind of hitting a button or it's already baked into our systems, don't to do anything with it, but it's so powerful. Uh So transition a little bit. You know, you're you're pretty honest about the idea of well being, especially when you know, when it talks about like social media, like a lot of people feel like if they're active, they have to be out there. We're talking about this little bit in this conversation right now too, like you have to do these things to be successful, but like what makes you feel good? Um, sometimes less of one thing is more of another. Um. Yeah, you want to expand on that a little bit more, Like you know, I personally challenges this a little bit myself right now and seeing some of the the rise of of social media and influencing and then also just like this urge to be like urge almost like requirement to feel like you always have to create, create, create, and uh, you know, can you explain that a little bit more because I think it's a topic. Yes it is. Um, So I do believe you have to do like do less to create more. And what I mean by that, And at the time when I was really in that was that I had started my podcast, um about two years ago and now actually coming up in two years and after I think sixty nine episodes, I just realized that I'm exhausted because to your point, I had been doing this consistent. If there's one thing is I'm good at being consistent, So when I put my heart onto something, I will be consistent and you will not see me fail it. Like right now, I'm doing Insanity workout and I'm in the second week um completing it. And I've done this before because I'm able to see things through. So for me with the podcast, I got to a point where I was just exhausted and I realized I need to take a step back because I need to refuel myself and I need to bring back the passion to this topic of conversation with the podcast, and after seventy episodes in total, I had had enough of that. And that doesn't mean that I can't come back to it because by taking that time away. It started with taking two months break. I think actually two weeks. I think I had said in my podcast I'm gonna take two week break and come back. Two weeks expanded to two months. In two months explained to six months, and that is in some people's eyes, like what happened? What's going on? Why aren't you continue? Why don't you creating more? You know, more and more and more. For me, it was like, no, I'm exhausted, I'm tired, I can't do it. And also, my heart wasn't in it in that way at that time, because I was going through things in my life that prevented me from really putting my heart into it. So by taking the time away, I've come to a new realization and I have a new passion for the podcast, a new segment, and the next thing I want to do with the podcast is talking we with the c suite, talking with people who are at the executive level at various organizations to talk about their business and personal legacy. That's something I haven't thought about before. But just make it very exclusive to that group of people, because I was like, this is exactly how my podcast started, what with the curiosity of talking to anyone in our field what their thoughts and you know, feelings are around their life and their legacy. And now by taking that time away, and I invested so much in those conversations, and I love what happened with the podcast. Now I'm at the point where I can see from a completely different point of view, and now I have a different level of passion to it. So I just think it's important to not lose who you are and what you do because you're afraid of missing out on something like the fomo is real, but there's also a new thing called yomo, like the joy of missing out. And that's actually the boat that I am in. That's the whole reason why I took so much time away from consistently showing up and you know, so many different places, to really just taking a time out and saying, you know what, I am perfectly happy in my life to take the break that I need to focus on my well being and then I'll come back even stronger. And that's exactly what's happening, all right. I love that. Personally, I needed to hear that. Thank you for sharing that. Uh yomo? Is that y o m o? Because J J J Yes, okay, I might say things differently because of my accents. I'm originally from Sweden. I was born and raised there, so sometimes you know, I sound American, but sometimes I slip and people like, what did you say? I was thinking? I was thinking because I use y'alla, which was like, it's from some of my Israeli customers in the past. They used always say yeah, let's go, let's go in. They're like, oh y'allah, and so I was like, wait, is that like a y on top of it. You like exciting,...

...but anyway, that's awesome. I like it. So to transition and close out the conversation is perfect transition here, which is Um, you know you're talking about this right now with your podcast. Right now, it's all about this legacy stuff. Um, you're always asking your podcast guests about this, right this is your new thing. Uh? But what is what is your legacy? What are you? What are you looking to hold put out there in the world? What do you what do you hope to when you're gone? Yeah, remembered by It's such a heavy question, even though I've asked so many people that we had so many conversations. UM, I want to start by just saying that what my legacy might what I might want my legacy to be. It's very difficult, first of all, to even make make that up almost you know, like you have an intention of how you want to lead your life. But I will never know if I accomplish that, I won't know and it won't matter to me anyway. But my goal is right now and my north star for what I want my legacy to be at this moment is to be able to give and receive unconditional love and support. That's that's it. That's powerful. Yeah, that's powerful, unconditional love and support. Yeah, because before it was just unconditional love because I had this like big hole in my heart and I'm just looking to be loved and admired. But then it grew from that to also including the support because I've realized sometimes with the lack of support that that's what I really need in a specific way. So for me, I want to be able to give unconditional love and support to people around me, and I'm able to receive that as well. Thank you for sharing. That's that's really powerful stuff. So, uh, thank you for everything you've shared today on today's episode as well, you've mentioned your podcast a few times for folks that are not familiar with it. What's the name of the podcast and is there a primary or preferred way of communicating if someone wanted to reach out and engage with you after the show today? Of course, So the podcast is called What Is Your Legacy? And it's on all the major platforms, so Spotify, Apple, Google, um, and I mean people can I will say I am better now that I'm back and I'm more mindful, I am better at responding, but I'm not the best and the best way to connect with me would definitely be Um. Instagram actually is a great place. I love Instagram and you'll see so much more of my personality than who I am day to day. Probably a lot of my dog there as well. Um, but yeah, Instagram is a great place. Um and text me honestly, Like I prefer text messages over emails and my phone number. I have two phones at the moment month for this reason, and my social phone number is on my LinkedIn profile so anyone can find it and anyone can reach out as long as they're not spamming, because I've actually had some people randomly message and like pitch slap me basically and I'm like, no, thank you, I'm all set. Oh people will go the long ways. That's awesome. Uh. Instagram is a pretty popular new place to actually be like the d M s and it's just a messaging app as well. Uh, I'm got to ask that question Instagram, Yeah, because you can. You can do everything on Instagram to just like you can do on LinkedIn. But the inbox and LinkedIn is just overwhelming. Like I literally get anxiety from my lin inbox I'm not kidding, right, I have anxiety over this inbox on a weekly basis where I feel guilty for not responding. And that's not a great feeling to sit with when you're trying to have meaningful, useful conversations with people and you can't even respond because that gives you anxiety to even pay attention to that inbox. So that's the other thing too, like we have to be mindful and consider about like who are we responding to? Who are these people? If they're not responding on one platform, then go to the next one, you know, because someone might have missed that. Yeah, well it's it's important to understand that from your being as well. But it is interesting to have that perspective. If I'm a rep listening to this for the first time, you know, you may have even started an engagement with someone where there was a level of interest, but it goes away. It's nothing to do with you or proctor service. It's just, um, you know, a little bit more persistence can pay off. On the flip side of that, also, don't spam, so play with that balance, find balance, and there's so the Oh, it's...

...just it's frustrating sometimes when people can't see the bigger picture, and you know, not follow the advice of just do what everyone else is doing because it seems like a good idea, but actually try it yourself and like be logical and be human and put yourself in that position, like how would you feel if someone did this? Yeah, because I didn't think about this, Like I was also the cells trap very early on, who tried different methods to get someone to respond, you know, and they never worked. And I quickly realized, like, hold on, this is the wrong way to do this, This is not the right way to sell. I realized that, you know, early on, which is good, but then now you have to think about, okay, what is the right way. And now I can see because I do get prospect that and I learned from that as well, and I can take those learnings and bring that to my team and I can say, here are some other ways to do it or not it, you know, and then look at how are you doing it today? The incredible knowledge that you've dropped today is going to go super far with your mission of legacy of unconditional love and support. Thank you so much again for um blessing us with your presence today and for those of you who paid attention Instagram, LinkedIn, you're going to get the channels for communication if you want to reach out. And again, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you so much, Rying, It's been really nice to talk with you. All the best.

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