Revenue Champions
Revenue Champions

Episode 77 · 1 month ago

77: Demandism: learnings from 2022 (with Cognism Marketing Leaders)

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Welcome to Revenue Champion’s ninth episode of Demandism. Where Cognism marketing leaders Alice De Courcy, Liam Bartholomew and Fran Langham give actionable tactics behind executing a demand generation first strategy that delivers month on month marketing revenue growth. This episode of Demandism focuses on reflecting on Cognism’s marketing team’s key learnings and lessons from 2022. This includes a review of the inbound and pipeline growth, paid social account structure, testing new ideas and experiments and more.

Yeah, hi everyone, howe December first of all, NSA Copelly that's going to the end of the year, UM excited for another episode of demand is UM. We're gonna actually look back on and provide some of our key lessons and learnings that we've had throughout the year. We've been doing a lot of retrospectives as we've been going through the whole planning process and budgeting and forecasting, and so we thought why not share them all with you guys, and hopefully you'll find them interesting UM and can take some insights away as well. So as always please do UM speak to us in the chats and in your questions and we'll keep it really interactive UM. And yeah, without further ado, we will get going. Cool. So just to quick entry in case your first time demanders and listeners. Who are the rest of the people on the panel. We've got Liam whose global head UM of Demand Generation, and we've got Fran who is our head of demand Generation. So literally got three d g um people here hoping to yeah, distill some insights today. Welcome guys. Okay, all right, yet you're there, you came on. Okay, let's get going. So I guess like where we've come from. It's always good to do a bit of a respective look back on like like wherever we come from and hopefully give you guys some confidence that you're in good hands when it comes to taking any advice that we share UM on yet all our learnings across the year, so um for anyone who doesn't hasn't really been following the congress and journey from kind of lead gen into demand gen. This is how it's looked over the last twelve months. We began implementing demand generation probably and like it was a round October last year where we started making the first sort of shifts, but we weren't full like fully fledged demand gen UM. And then actually it was in March of this year where we've we really made the decision that's it, no more m quels, no more content needs were turning off the tap on that and we're going all in on demand generation. That was in March time. UM. And actually what you can see and I think this is like this is really really good correlation in terms of understanding like has this worked, Like what's the impact been have was our hypothesis of we don't actually need these content m quels to make up for that revenue gap that we're going to lose from the content side, and we can actually create more of these direct declared intent demand demo requests through allocating that budget into other initiatives. And the answer was yes, Like you can see that really clearly on this chart. Um, yeah, I think I think there's like there's a tiny dipper towards the end of November, but that's actually just because we're getting more efficient and that and you know, there are other factors that play like, um, you know cos pet well CPL or leads volume is not always the best thing to be measuring, but in terms of an early indicator of success, like we've seen that velocity massively increase UM literally in line with our journey through this dermomon gen approach. So um, that's kind of the last twelve months picture, which is really pleased to see. And then more importantly, like how does that actually translate into things that really matter pipeline um, And we can see it here like this is the global view across the quarters and then also this is you can see a real staircasing happening when you look at it from a monthly perspective. So I'd say key takeaways here when you're trying to deep dive, like is this new approach having an impact on your revenue and your pipeline numbers? If you're a quarterly business where your reps are targeted and quarters, you're probably going to have this staircasing, so you won't it won't look like it's just a nice line chart that happens on the on the global top graft where it's like quarterly view, you're going to have more of a staircasing effect on the monthly view. But you really should be taking this like across the quarters that as we can see that chart looks really healthy as well. Um, we're actually already at QT pipeline for Q four and we've still got a whole month to go in December is always our best month across the whole year. So very confident that KEY four is going to be like closing out incredibly strongly and really put like a solid end to this whole year and our whole yeah progress against man Gen. I think also important to call out the dip in Q two. Don't panic. This happened to us. As I said, we just switched off lead like Legion content m quels and suddenly we had a dip and it was like, oh my gosh, okay, but you have to you have to stay the course. You have to stay positive. Um. And you because you can see that velocity in the direct declared intent inbounds, you know that your early signs are actually positive. So that gives you confidence to stay the course. But just be aware that this could happen at you out of the beginning. But then you can see that velocity, velocity taking off, which wouldn't happen if we'd kept on going through the old m quel Hamster will. So that is where we came, where we've come from, the success that this we've had through this this year. Um So like I guess, how did we do it? Like it's all very well showcasing the numbers and showing with the nice charts, but how can you actually kind of take the steps to do this? And...

...like one of the biggest learnings that we've had from it that you can take away and start implementing. So this is like a massive one and I think going into twenty three, it's really important that people kind of up level their content to the to the next level. And this is about creating content for the channel. So I think we had a really good content well, I think for our stage, we had a really good content engine to begin with, and we were very good at repurposing content. So we would take we would have a demand as an episode like this, UM, and then as a matter of course, we would have a checklist of what we would do post that event, which would be taking clips straight from that demanders and content that would then get added into the paid into our paid social and we'll talk about how that would be structured, like how that used to be structured back in the day and then how it structured today. But there was much less thought about it um, And there was much less thought about where that content sat within like an overall narrative or levels of um. Yeah, like content content levels as well. UM. And also ultimately the worst thing about it was it wasn't tailored for the channels, so it's not a great viewing experience. There were like some of our heads bobbing around and then slides um and yeah, we basically weren't getting the most value from that content. So we while we were doing a good job of like getting lots of different pieces of content out there, and taking some of our best performing content and like reusing it. We weren't really doing as good as job as we could do, and we were aware of this. So what have we now done, Like how have we pivoted? And then we're really going to double down on this going into next year. So we still grab the bestifits from Alive like this, but we re record them for the specific channels, which is really important, so go away slides just like talking Head video, clear subtitles, and then we really tailor the creative around the channel and we create a much better experience for the viewers. So this means that like that zero clip content um, maximum consumptional engagement from our audience, all of these things happen, and we've seen huge increases and metrics across the border around this by taking this new approach, so we know it's definitely the way to go, and it's something that we're gonna be doubling down on next year. And um, yeah, I kind of wish we knew when we had focused on at the beginning, but we still I think you learn and you develop, and we've we've got a lot out there and now we just have a much more refined process and much more structure around it and ultimately better results. So um, and also I think this is a really good important reminder this isn't just about our paid social example, like content repurposing across channels is actually the really well I say, it's not probably not quite becoming the norm yet and B two B marketing. But if you want to get the edge and stay ahead of your competition and be like pushing the boundaries of what great looks like, then you do need to tailor your approach to every channel. It's not one size fits all, so really understand what works on the channels are important to you and where your audience are hanging out, and then make sure that you're creating content in that format for them. It takes a bit more work, but ultimately it's really worth like the juice is worth the squeeze. Cool. So enough of me, I'm going to hand over to you Liam, Um, and this is all about how we structured our paid accounts. Yeah, um, hi everyone. UM. So when we obviously started off and moved into this UM sort of demand generation strategy back in October last year's when we really started sort of like um planning it out and and act and acting on it. Um. We had to like we we had to start by gating everything, but slowly you realize you can't just really just go into your ad accounts and just get all the content that you've got that we were running for Legion and that sort of work in the demand um in the demand genuay Um, you've kind of got a restructure everything that you've done um and and the rethink your approach right down from I suppose not like all the content that you're putting out there um uh, and like exactly what content and who you're and like at what point you're targeting everyone as well. So we when we were running like a legion um strategy, we've had everything split out on geography and then actually what we would do is for a lot of the Legion adds, we would actually just break it down on like popular um popular sort of pieces of content, because we're obviously just writing these sort of e books and written content as well. So we'd have like a whole campaign on LinkedIn about co cooling with co cooling um white papers and the books. We'd have a hot or like or like objection handling in there, and then we'd have someone cadences and we would or like for them. We'd have like a few different ones on marketing as well, so it might be like being data driven or another set on like a b m um. But actually when we really when we sort of i'm gated everything when we realized that, well, you can't just like put out...

...everything as um like the books. Again, we need to sort of like diversify the content. So then we were supposed to have then we needed to have campaigns based on but like with video, we also wanted like carousel ads. We also wanted like um uh like static ads and stuff that all of that had to change um. And then also at the beginning we hadn't like fully transitioned away from Leegen, so we had some we had so much we would then be undated, which would call our awareness campaigns. Then we'd have like these the generation campaigns um still running, and then we'd have what also underneath what we'ld have like our performance campaign, which is like stuff that's like we're directly asking for a demo um. And at first as well, we were as we sort of switched us over, we didn't serve everything to the entire audience at once. We you know, we thought like, oh, we'll restructure our content so we have like top of final, middle of the final, bottom of final, and then everyone who watch it who engages with the top of final will retarget with the middle of funnel, and then everyone who engages that will retarget with bottom funnel. But then we kind of realized that, you know, you can't have UM, you no one knows what anyone really is in the buying cycles, so actually limiting our content by doing that UM And you know, people who have seen who's to say just because they've engaged with a top of funnel ad that they're now ready to see the middle of finnel. But also who's to say that they're not ready to see bottomer funnel at any one time? So all of this we sort of had to We had to rethink UM and we also had to so it's like the start, we just had to think about all of the new content we need to create, whether that's sake, UM, doing more video carousels, UM, other web based content, pushing to engage to blogs, and how we can level up the blogs as well, so like they're not just text and we've got video in them UM and sort of move away from just promoting e books and also plan about how we could reach all of our I c P at once. So that means all the decision makers, all of the visual contributors, and what content we could create for each of those different types of personas. So it's like a big load of work that we needed to do on the accounts UM. On top of that, we didn't want to make it too complicated because me talking about this now, it just sounds extremely complicated and that's how and it could easily become. So, so we need to fill like a simple structure that would allow us to fulfill these needs UM. But at the same time was something that was manageable and we weren't just going to be completely bogged down. So therefore, our old version of what we did, where we based campaigns based on the type of content, would have just got absolutely hectic as we made more and more of it. So what do we do? We UM moved into what well, we started by creating buckets really UM So there are five main types of buckets UM that we have and they sit across regions and personas. So what our account will be breaking down into for example, for US UK, US DOC UM. And then within that you've got sales marketing UM. And we started to do some like work as well with rev ups. And then each of those personas then broken down into your individual contributors but versus your decision makers, and then we have buckets across those. So thought leadership is as it is like all of the next like thought leadership in that space, like you know, real point of view about where we're going, where we're moving, UM, top level stuff that's sort of like the guiding conversation and maybe marketing ourselves UM. And that that bucket is like primarily with the objective of reach, although you could have it for an objective traffic as well, doesn't depend on the content that you're putting out. Just on that one, I think it's quite interesting to talk about. So we've had that thought leadership, which while the diagram is about data, because we literally just had didn't we have this leadership off site the other day and we just got stuck on this. We're like, why is sort leadership only reach? And we were and we realized that what happened as we were over inflating the amount of content that went into the content bucket, because that content was suited to a traffic objective because it was driving people to a destination. And so that meant that even though the topic was much more suited to a thought leadership piece, it was being chucked into content and then our content people like being inflated, and thought leadership was kind of under performing and didn't have much in it. So we've we've altered that. We've said, okay, like we're going to try this. We're actually going to have the option for the demand gen pods to be able to brief in um ads for paid social which our ship traffic. If that is how the content is meant to be consumed, And so it comes back to this mindset of like, it's not we don't just like we don't ever want to just be doing this because that's how how how it's done. We want to be doing it because that's what makes sense for the consumption of that content is going to match is that content engagement with the audience. So I think that's just like if...

...you're looking at this and you're like, why that was one thing where we really thought through that process and kind of make a change exactly, And you've got these buckets for a reason, right, Because Each different type of content provides like, um, your bio with like different information that they all need, so um, you don't want to like limit yourself that thought leadership content and then needs to all the videos so that you've got reach or it's all got to be able to exist in an add that they can view and feed because you're not going to use the traffic objective where they might go to a longer form piece on on your website. UM. And then content is like further removing thought leadership because it's it's closer to your products, so it's more like a dotted line. So like here, for example, we put um lots of like we have lots of things about could cooling, which is a very like you know, you can get lots of direct dolls in cognism. We have that that whole topic is a dotted line to our product is much more practical um and really helpful to to like to the audience unless of top level UM and overarching and then we have social proof and product values. So product value is like all at the bottom of final content about your product and exactly what your product does. And we pushed this out through like quite often a reach objective UM, so people can consume information about our products in feed and then we can remark it to the people that interact with This gives us a new layer of a way of increasing frequency and meeting these people who are interested in the product. And social proof runs on the same sort of premise, but providing social proof about the products and think we always thought and I said that because BBC do social proof really well, you don't get the same always and B two B. But you know, people buy from others and they want to know whether a vendor, whether vendor is good upfront UM, and they trust other consumers and people in their community. So pushing out social proof is a great way of achieving that. And then we have what were traditional performance campaign that are based that are based around like obviously getting a demo, but we we can mix us up. We've got loads of different ways that we go and achieve that and actually provide value in feed. So and probably if you follow us and being times, we've probably seen some of our videos where we're talking to camera and explaining a little bit about the product at the same time as um you know people coming through like offering the chance to get a demo for us as well. Um, So then that's basically how we split out. And now when we think about everything that we're doing in activity, we can think about these buckets and how we're going to populate them and which content will go where um, and well you know what we need to when we come to analyzing the account as well, we can break down to the buckets and look, look exactly what um, yeah, like which bits are struggling and what bits we need more content for. So it gives us a real clear structure of how to run it. Essentially amazing cool Now, ONTI, I'm just gonna answer those questions in the chat easier to address than there um but less than three with with and which is testing new ideas and experiments. This is this is a good section. There's a lot in here to unpack. Did you want to answer the questions or you're going to do it in chat? I'm just gonna do it in chats. I think it's probably easier. Okay, I think CPM could be frequency as well, but I can arrest um, so I will dive into our lesson to me so testing new ideas and experiments, so um, something that we talked a lot about doing this year UM, and we finally got around to it UM with a direct mail campaign. So we found it was a great way to amplify your message. Now, I think this is something that everyone can agree like really falls can often fall to the bottom of the list, and we can become UM something that's de prioritized over those bloways on actions that marketers do. So for us, we really wanted to think of a way to activate our message in a different way. UM. We decided to prioritize this because it was just giving another voice on like sharing our voice, amplifying our voice, like on a different channel. So I guess for us, the important thing was that I've I mean I know as a marketer, I've sent direct mails out in the past and they haven't really had a lot of meaning behind them. So the important thing for us was that this was tied into a message. This was tied into a campaign UM and a narrative that we were already putting out there. So for us, we UM we gave our audience opportunity to claim a free T shirt which was tied very closely into our B two B marketing doesn't have to be Boring campaign, and then we invited our audience to share this across social UM and then they entered into a competition. So the fact that it was tied into that strong narrative already UM ensued that it resonated and we had a lot of other assets as well that we're already built around it. I think you know what we saw is we had so much engagement around this particular campaign, and it was the opportunity UM for our message to be amplified on social because we were asking UM those who participated to share it. So we'd say that, like, this is something that we want to double down on next year, like focusing on other ways to action,...

UM use different channels to kind of action. These these campaigns that were running so has been very effective. But yeah, the one takeaway for us is it's definitely had to tie back into something. Tie back into a campaign, align with your business, align with the narrative that you've currently got at the moment. I think that I was talking to our CEO an event last week and he receives things in the mail all the time, but like it might just be a cupcake or something with no meaning and it's not overly memorable. But the ones that have really packed a punch are the ones that directly tied to pain points or narratives and UM yeah, key campaign messages. So that's one UM idea that we've tested. Secondly, so UM we were testing, we really wanted to focus on testing a strong point of view in our campaigns, So we wanted to think of stories that resonated with our corpsona and launched something that had a strong narrative throughout the reason for this is because we didn't just kind of want to put loads of content out there and kind of spray and pray and and just hope that the message would stick. We really wanted to think about UM telling you know, a story that resonated, but something that had like a clear creative direction. So it stood out. UM It's present not just on paid social, but on multiple channels. So for Robby two B boring campaign. UM. That was another reason why we did the t shirt like the direct mail t shirt campaign, because we wanted to activate the message across the different channels other than paid social. UM. But then it did tie back into that because the people who entered the competition did share UMU share their story on on LinkedIn afterwards. UM. Also, I think we wanted to explore different content formats as well, so we focused a lot more like that. You can see the video here UM of Alice that we focused more on higher quality videos. We looked at different ways to approach our ads, like different ways and which we could be creative like with the things that we're putting out there. And also on top of that, like William has spoken about our content boockets that we have UM running, so we've got the content, the thought leadership, the product, and the social proof. So here it's really important that we were producing content that aligned with those themes and like aligned with those bookts, so we weren't just creating UM one type of content throughout the campaign. UM for us that's been really successful not only in the results, so it's driven. So one of the campaigns that we spent a lot of time on was the b twob borrowing campaign and having the strong point of view around this UM. It's not only driven like pipeline and revenue, but essentially the qualitative feedback as well that we've had from it has been like really strong. We've had great feedback on the creative and how the creatives standing out and also just in general how much is resonated with the audience. So it's definitely makes sense to take that time to do your research and think of something that will absolutely resonate. Another idea is the influence of ads. So um, I think we've we've shared about this quite a bit, but it's been Yeah, they've been our best performing content ads ever. So the clip through rates, engagement rates were absolutely off the charts. Um. We're nervous, I guess about doing it first because it is a native screenshot. We didn't want to be seen to like tricking anyone, um. But actually what we found is it it worked really well for providing this like top of funnel like value in the demand gen engine. And actually the large maunjority of feedback that we got from it was people were really excited by it because it's something that they hadn't seen in feed before and they were you know, it was kind of like a clever way to I guess, to catch people's attention almost um. But it did have that paid budget behind it. Um. So yeah, so adds as as I like we've written here like ads that look don't look like ads often work the best, and we've certainly found this, So I would suggest UM people definitely give a try. I think recommendations are that we do have to have that really strong hook UM and it has to be really value lead UM. So yeah, that's that's something that I would say has definitely stopped the scroll in feed. And then Liam did a fabulous presentation last weekend event on how we're using sect matter of experts. So we're gonna let him UM take over and just do these last couple of slides. Yeah. Sure. So I think something that's been like a massive success yester year that we just weren't really doing UM last at all UM is making use of influences UM. And that's both people that are at sternal to Cognism that we have we work on a contract basis with UM as an influencer and then building our own personal profiles within cognism and raising people within the business to make influences out of them as well. So I think, UH,...

...to create an influencer or what is an influencer and B two B is you need to have one the following. So that's the personal brand element UM and to UM you've got to have the the subject matter expert element and one or the other is an influencer if you've just got a huge personal brand but you've got no but you're not really a subject matter expert, and anythink you're you're just a celebrity. UM. So that you know that will that will happen. You'll get something out of that, you'll get some reach out of it. And if you've got the subject a matter expert about the following, then yeah, you're probably a traditional subject matter expert who's contributing to blogs and just on a few webinars, but you're not creating a community around who you are. UM. So to create an influencer, you need both of those two things. And I think that's where you can really start to move the needle and make a difference UM in the content you put out, So UM what I and in that, I'd say that I can I have written here, influence there, or provide you if they have those two things with authority to your authority to your content. A lot of content UM and B two be kind of sucks because it's it's been just written by UM a content marketer out there, but they don't maybe necessarily have much of authority on the on the topic themselves. It's just they're just writing and producing the content. Not to say that it's not going to be well written, but people want to listen from people that they respect and believe and have like some sort of um, you know, like admiration for a good a good influence that should have a unique point of view as well, so UM, they should be able to present that and people like their predictable. People know what they will say to something, They know what they think, they know what they believe. UM. This is this is what helps like build a following. UM. They'll also deliver the content in easy consumable formats UM and be sort of interested in like creating different types of content, not just maybe like contributing UM in the back end, like I'll have like a ghostwriter or like write for them or something like that. A good and a good influence. We will be producing that video and all this sort of stuff. And then they will interact with your audience as well, creating like sort of like a human face to your brand. So like UM, if you think like UM for example, Chris Walker find apps like he goes around and he actually he's constantly interacting with the audience on LinkedIn as well. UM, And and that's part of it. So it's like that they will. They are directly contactable, directly easy to reach out here and speak about anything that people are interested in, but also potentially relating to your brand as well. And in all of that and doing all that, they then act as a catalyst on dark social right, so people maybe start tagging them for their opinion um, asking them about certain things, or like referencing them on social um in different on different threads and channels. So Ryan straight ahead with the kap on he was our He's been influencing for us for this entire year UM And like I said, like obviously we've built up our own profiles. For example, we've we've got David Um who heads up ourselves development team. We've been building up his profile. We've been building up our own profiles here for the marketing persona. But Ryan is a self professed lifetime SDR who loves cold calling. M doesn't work for Cognism. He runs his own business and is a author as well. But what we have done is we've worked with Brian and contracted with him to get out for him to become a subject matter expert, influence for cognism and promote us as well with all of his expertise at the same time. So I will go into exactly what that looks like. So it's jumps sorry, UM, so it might be of interesting people. Then, so what do we mean by that contracting like a sternal person to be like an influence for us, UM, so you can she get it like down into what we do is to discuss this UM is to have different like literally itemize some of the activity that we want to achieve and have UM, so you can have that in the agreement right down to her UM like YouTube seriales, webinars, video sniffets, whether they host the podcast which Ryan does for us as well, Like how many blogs they should contribute for, like if they can turn up to events, news letters, whether they write for those, which Ryan does for us as well, UM, and like how many posts we can get out for their channel, and whether they're happy to to for us to like hijack take over the channel and post with them as well, which we've had like varying levels of access um to Ryan's channel as we have over this UM over this year. UM. And then like uh whether like and then whether they like you know, announced their relationship with us as well, and have like where all the merchants stuff like that, and you can detail all of this down so that you have like a set number of deliverables that you want to achieve of them each month and then quarter um to really sort of like pershing...

...scale that that same or that that influencer content. UM. I think obviously you can work with people, you can get subject matter experts, send your webinars and content and stuff, and you work people for free. But one of the keys to making this work is volume and scale and producing enough content with them that you can actually you can actually make it, you can actually grow it um. And I think the only way to get that to work is to is to really like homee that down to what that activity looks like and having like an agreed output between you. Obviously we've scaled this further now we work with Morgan Ingram as well, which you might have seen. Um. We do a huge amount of content with him, which has been great. We've also got Gatana Snati on the marketing sidey has been working with us as well, so you can you can like can continue to go and expand it, because after all, something these won't last forever. This agreements way or whatever. Sometimes you might find that they then want to leave and move on, so you need to find a new new avenues for creating this content. But all is not lost if people leave, because you would have had all this content that you've created over time, which is actually the most valuable thing. Um. Also, you would have been able to influence their community, which they absolutely which absolutely love them for like as as long a period of time as you're welcoming with them to really like push out your brand. So um, yeah, it's not really whether they leave or not. It's not really an issue, but you do want to have always have someone out there to help influence the audience and provide that content for you. So I think then I hand back over. Yeah, I'm gonna pop us on to Fran who has been spearheading pretty exciting stuff that we're doing on the content side of things, and there's been a few questions about it in the chats, and this is now the time to get your answers, So hand over to front. Great. Um, right, well, if I can answer really start the problem you were trying to solve this, I think that's quite because I'm for sure it will be familiar with a lot of people that problem. Yeah yeah, so um yeah, so I guess for us, we UM made the demands and shift and we were investing a lot in UM the demands on team and kind of like where we're going to go with it. UM. The biggest, like one of the biggest pain points for me especially was content. So we had a lot of content UM, a lot of blog posts. We'd started doing live episodes, but we kind of weren't really sure what demands and content really meant. We didn't know what it meant to us. We didn't know kind of what to do with it m in regards to Howard structure it. So I think you'll probably remember anyone who is an avid listener is we spoke quite a lot about it was really important to have content UM exacts who sit on the demand Gen team. So we made that switch and we got some great contents exacts to sit on the team that I was heading up. Now it was fine and we were what we found we were doing is just kind of just doing what we've always done and just start writing blog pasts like every week, and we had a few videos layered on top. So it was clear that we had a problem, and the problem was what what does it mean to be like a content executive on a demand gen team within this new demand gen strategy. So that is something that we've been trying to work out and we've we've made some good progress, so I'm going to share that with you guys now. Um, we have actually been working with a BED Drani and Todd Klausser. I think you guys probably have heard of them before and and we've worked working closely with them right now to help us to put in a real framework that we could stick to so we can actually execute on content like effective content, but actually do that at scale. So this is our focus for Please drop your questions in the chat you will. I'm sure we've got time to answer them at the end anyway. Um, So we've kind of put this structure together and work with Todd and the BED on this. So we've we've split it up into three different types. So we now understand that there are three types of content that you can put out in this demand and framework. So type one we refer to as insightful substance. So an example of that could be me Um talking to camera and giving some actionable insights and that going on LinkedIn, so basically like a talking head video UM, and we've got loads of that and you've probably see loads of that around UM. Type two is insightful substance again like being UM providing this like really actionable advice, but actually delivered through an interesting format. So an example of type two could be, UM, we we did a paid to wipe file, So we did a paid ads wipe file which consisted of all our best performing paid ads. So the insightful substance is it explains every single boocket so exactly how it's set up, exactly how it works, and shows the performance of the ads and the best creatives. And the interesting format is actually the trailers wipe file. So instead of putting it on a landing...

...page or putting it like I don't know, in a PDF or something like that, or talking through on a video, we actually UM ended up coming up with something that was a little bit more engaging. So that was for us. That's a type two, right, So it's insightful, but it's in an interesting format. And then there's type three, which UM is insightful substance delivered through an interesting format but also built on an entertaining concept. So I was a bit of a mouthful. But the entertaining concept is really it's this thinking about your content from a bottom up evangelistic kind of way. So we want to like people, we want to be memorable, and we want our audience to engage with us. Um. But it could be just be in a really entertaining and funny way, and we don't want to be scared to like push the boundaries. So here I don't know, um if you guys have seen, but it could be sort of like so top Clouds that does a lot of B two B marketing skits, m Lavender Joe. It's a great um example of doing these like adverts which are just really kind of a bit more like experiential that they're really entertaining, but they're still important and they well they're still informative and they still have a dotted line back to the product and back to exactly what they do. So um, yeah, there're the three there's three types, um, and I guess as well, we have to really think about sort of the work required versus like you know, like the payoff at the end. So it's really important and to prioritize these um. So for example, we know we have a lot of Type one. We know we want to double down and invest in Type two and Type three next year, but you have to be really strong on Sometimes the team have loads of amazing ideas, but you can't action them all at once, so you have to pick the best ideas, double down on it, and really think about which idea is going to pay off the most. You have you have a CMO who who sends you ideas all the time, and once I'm done the next daybout I'm just kidding, but you you do actually have all the ideas are great, which is most annoying thing because we can't actually all at once. But yeah, you know we love that, so um, lots of ideation around that. Um, so yeah, we're kind of um. This is a stage where at I think Alice is going to go more into on the next few sides around just what we mean by a point of view and how this kind of looks from us more strategic point of view. However, we do have we do have a sneak peek of our Type three piece of content and we'd love feedback on it. So this Type three, so remember Type three is informative and it's in an interesting way done in an interesting way, and it's entertaining. So we've had to take all of those pillars. Now let's go, I'm going to do we do this? Why the is middle finger emoji at compared at the dot com making its way through making its way through to my sales team? As an m q O, have you ever been questioned by sales about the quality of your leads? It's because they don't know how to hit goal, and you do ignore them. Let them complain. It's not your job to close deals. It's your job to provide phone numbers and email addresses. Do you get to spend three nights at the four seasons if they close your m QEL I didn't think so. I've been running marketing teams for thirty one years, and I've developed the system for making even the most incompetent marketing teams appear effective. It's called legion. And in this course, I'm gonna show you how to get promoted as a marketer without ever driving any business results for your company. You will learn how to drive leads, regardless of their intent or if they ever close. You sent us the same leads every week because they opened your email like it's some prize. I already told you we called him several times and they're in a contract. You'll learn how to deny responsibility when questioned in front of leadership. The skills taught in this class could very well save your job. I'm the worst marketer in the world and this is master class. Okay, guys, saw what do we think? And I stals breathing down next at moment, I already think this guy can helps out with need volume. Um, so what do you think should we give him a guy? It's not my problem of sales Clays, let's do it, but it was his problem. Two months after implementing what he learned in this masterclass, Liam was brought in front of the executive leadership team to explain why none of marketing leads were closing. After trying to place the blame on sales ability to close, Liam was fired and is now suing the worst market in the world for false advertising. Jamie became the first marketer and company history to be put on a pit for...

...recommending the plan, and it has now been moved into an SDR role where he has to call every marketing lead from the past six months. He is yet to set a meeting. We did it. We did it, I guess, I guess we didn't give much context around that. So for the context, so as part of our narrative around making the shift from legion to demand gen and all fixed in with our story around B two B marketing doesn't have to be boring and that marketers should be moving away from this approach of like collecting leads. So this was our stab at type three. So all feedbacks welcome because we haven't done this before and you'll be seeing it on socials a lot. Very This is my farewell demanders and guys. So Liam, Liam limbs up after jam is yeah, cool, amazing. Um. Now this is a bit I think like some of you are interested in as well, because you've been mentioning it in the chat. So it's like, okay, how many of these strategic narratives and unique point of views should you have, um? And how should you build it out? So this is like a really really useful framework UM, and one that we've been working on going well, we're kind of working on right now affirming it up thank you four, but will already be rolling out early next year. So um, there's big We're just having a big focus on creating this strategic narrative. There's one strategic narrative that actually binds together all of our content messaging across all of the personas that we target. UM. So right now we really focus on sales and marketing, but we are also going to be expanding out into the side of things and again, this one strategic narrative will just sit across all of those UM and so how how are we going to do this? So we're and we're basically we started off by really trying to identify a relevant shift that's happening in the world of like B two B marketing and sales, so revenue UM. And then we want to take a point of view on that about what's needed to win in that shift. UM. And then we're going to be building out the content topics and messaging around these point of views. So the beauty of this is that we already had like quite a lot of what we call these sparks that sit under these unique point of views as like content ideas or individual content assets, but we had no like structural framework for ideating and producing more and more of these in a structured way and a process UM. And that in a way that also tied back to one strategic narrative and unique point of view, and it wasn't like a clear thread. So we while we were very good at a lot of sparks content, I guess, we didn't have the other two layers to this which have really really really helped us when it comes to planning out um and creating a process around this continual content delivery. And that was like this hugea that we had with things. Um So yeah, I think and then really important thing as well, the narrative should fuel a need that has a dot of line back to what we do as a business and sales intelligence. That's important, So you need to be thinking about that when you're building that strategic narrative. But yeah, so ultimately this has been a real unlock for us when it comes to structuring that content piece. And this is how we how are we're looking at it going into twenty three and we'll we'll share more on it as well, um in demands and episodes in twenty three as we build out. So what are other lessons that we learned? I thought I would like, then what are we looking for it into twenty three? So we've now got to a point where we're running this new paid adds social structure on LinkedIn. But again with this like and and this is a really important thing that you need to remember that with like this whole shift into demand generation, there is no one dashboard, There is no one report that will show you whether you're being successful. You need to get comfortable looking at lots of different reports, lots of different dashboards, lots of different metrics and drawing conclusions. And yes, you want to see correlations in the top line um goals which are pipeline revenue direct declared intent in bounds, but there's a lot underneath it that you need as early leading indicators to see if you're being successful. So under the hood of our paid social stuff was like, Okay, we're running all this stuff on LinkedIn, We've got these new buckets. We feel like we're like doing we're leveling up our content, But like what is the driving process and thought behind, Like when we should be updating those buckets when not the team should be looking to refresh, add, creative and copy, Like what is that process that like what yeah, and how and how do we create something that's like scalable for us going forward? So we've been running this now for like six months, we have enough data through our tracking that we can draw some conclusions on what the max frequency should be for a successful campaign and to give us the best metrics and also the maximum number of ads within that bucket to deliver the best metrics. And so from there we've notice set ourselves and guardrails. These guardrails...

...now in form a process around which we have created with the demand gen pod of like this is when the stuff needs refreshing. So if you're nearing that frequency cap or you have you don't have enough for ads in the bucket, well the ads like pieces, you have too many ads in the bucket, then you're not meeting the key KPIs that we set. We we know that are needed for us to be successful. And obviously we'll continue to review these metrics and see if they hold true and if they alter, will change them. But for right now, like this is our kind of playbook on what's needed in each in each of the buckets. And that's a massive step forward for us going into twenty three. And now the process behind that by which like the content then gets refreshed, updated and created is the next step. So yeah, well we'll be working more on that in twenty three. You can see here these are our benchmarks that I would say so like hopefully they might be interesting to you guys. There's just some some benchmark, but just be wary that it's for our account and it's very much for our audiences. And then we have similar UM situation and from a reporting perspective, is like I want I wanted to get into a flow of like understanding what is the what's the so the spark content that's really driving the best engagement UM and the best like interactions with our audiences, and we need to get into a process of reporting on that like very regularly and then also using that to inform UM further sparks and content ideas within the new framework that we've produced. So again a firmer playback and on this reporting using our UTM analysis are amazing new head global head of Paid runs this for us and we have these deep dives into this type of insight to understand like what it is from that content spark perspective that's really resonating with our audience in each of the buckets. So we can see in marketing UM this whole topic of LEGM versus demand GM, which you guys might all be sick of hearing UM is really popular. And then three years of scaling, which is kind of my this is a thought leadership piece. It's kind of me as a CMO, a first time CMO scaling at the startup. UM, we'll now scale up like and what my experiences have been UM, and then we know that like G two reviews are doing really well for us. And actually, interestingly, the A B M use case of all of the use cases of cognism of marketers is the one that seems to be resonating the most. So that's the kind of insights that's super helpful and can inform how you go about the process of updating those buckets when you see that you're reaching those caps that you need UM, which informed you to go through that process, if that makes sense. UM. I have just waffled that, sorry about that, And I think that is that's everything, isn't it. I can't believe it. We've managed to get through a demand iss UM and we have ten minutes, ten minutes to go, but we have It's almost like we're already halfway part of foot in the door for Christmas. UM. I think we probably have answered all your questions throughout, so again, obviously if you have any that you want to answer now, pop them in the chat while we're here and you've got us Otherwise, hopefully, UM it was a good session. We'll be sharing sides and recording as always, and don't forget there is that Facebook group where you can access them probably most easily and you can obviously search them and ask us further questions, etcetera throughout UM But yeah, if not, I will let everyone go and take a bit more time back. Um Sean, what's the size and structure of our team? So we so from the cognism team size and the demands Fran, maybe you go through your your your your demand and team structure and size. Yeah, I can go through this, um so Colgonism size, Colgonism size, Colognism side of um SO. My team we have um I had a good advantage. And then we have two demands GA managers either side, and they focus on our two corporates oonas which are sales and marketing. And then we have two marketing exex that sit with our demander managers. And then we also have at the moment just one content EXEPT that sits on the sales side, and we hope UM next year to get another content exact that can sit on the marketing side. So that's how we approach it. And I would say that structure. I know that it's not always possible UM. You know, teams in other companies could be a lot smaller, but I'd say really just having that focus on one Corporsona has been really valuable for us UM and having that content person sit in that to launch and team, I think it is the other big unlock UM definitely, especially now we've got this framework, which I'm sure we're gonna be talking a lot about next year. Yeah, definitely. And then do we write thought leaship content for your CEO? Senior Leeders LinkedIn? If so, what's the process there? So not for the CEO, but to be honest, like it's not really that's not really the core I see like iced p bar for us or like targets, So that wouldn't really be something we would do. But when it comes to the content for Dave Bentham, who's who is one of our simes within the org, what the way we approach it is to have into vius with him,...

...where the team will like ask him questions, present their ideas or content like content they think we could talk about topics and then just get Dave to chat and then from there they build the content off those And so that means that it's like so easy for Dave. All he has to do is take the content. If he wants to do a small edit, he can and he just has to go and post it. So you just want to make it as friction free as possible. Yeah, I would say as well that you wanna reason why you would't want to just write it for them and not to a process where it's it's still their knowledge is it just won't be authentic, and like authenticity is the biggest thing that will like make a post win or create a profile on LinkedIn, people will see three straight away if it's just someone else speaking for them. Yeah, definitely. Um, I think we've actually we've put that DG content role is on the Facebook group. So search that all, look for the in the documents on the Facebook group and if you're not already part of it, go to Demand is them and on Facebook and join the group. But it's it's on there. But do you feel free to chat on the group if you can't find it. Um, how often do you create campaigns? Maybe miss it said? This is an interesting one. Um, we've had a process around campaigns. Um, okay, well then you do a Facebook so we will just where would like us to share it with you? Maybe maybe just send it on LinkedIn or I can just send the link now, yeah, if you can do. If that works, let me know. If it doesn't, I'll send it to you on on LinkedIn. Let's connect. Um, what's the question campaigns? So maybe I'll give you I'll give you the floor front because on this so we came up with a very shiny new approach to campaigns and how can we run them? And I spent a long time on the structure. Um, it was yeah, we were going to run them every six or eight weeks, um, and yeah that was that was kind of thing. And we'd come up with a topic and would be like, right, we're going to speak about this topic six to eight weeks, and we're gonna run that campaign and we're going to stop, stop, start or continue after this six or eight weeks. I think because we didn't really know how it was going to play out, it was probably um, the thought process was probably a little bit over engineered now looking back, and what we found was we ran a campaign on the sales side, which UM didn't do quite as well as we'd hoped, But then we did on a campaign on the marketing side, which was b twop marketing doesn't have to be boring and exceeded like all expectations UM. And since we've actually been working on a new framework, we've come to the conclusion that instead of running these like we called them spotlight campaigns, what we actually want to do is spend time working on a strong strong point of view and the content is actually driven by that as opposed to these like isolated campaigns. So the BSB borwing narrative, actually the BBB borrowing spark actually rolls into a strong point of view and it's something that we continue to do and that's always on UM. So I would say my advice now would be if I was doing this again, I would actually work within this framework in regards to what's the overall narrative, what are the strong points of view we want to convey, what types of content UM fit, what kind of topics fit within those points of view, and then how we can we activate this and it's almost like and what's the payoff of doing that? Say, how much resource does it take to activate a type one versus a type three? Um? And once you kind of start thinking about that and working within that frameworker becomes a lot easier instead of putting all your eggs in one basket in like into an isolated spotlight campaign and like hoping that it works. Um. And also goes back to that whole mindset shift of like always on to everyone all the time farther than like like why only six eight weeks today when we think back to it, like, yeah, we just picked that right time frame. We were like, then we might continue it. And the thing was, the B TB Boring campaign kept resonating, so we kept on and we were like, it is always on narrative now, So um, yeah, you kind of got both sides of the coin. You've got this other campaign that flopped. Sorry Tim, it didn't flop. It was really good, but it just didn't take off in the same way as that as the boring campaign. Um. And we had yeah, and anyway that some of that was was really not anyone anyone's fault, but there there are. But then and then at the same time, we had this other campaign which we're like, why would we ever turn this off? And so it became like an always on piece that was just we just happened to have this spark that wasn't like really resonating with our audience. And so yeah, I think going forward, we're now going to really minimize the risk of any campaign flopping ever because we're not going to really have campaigns, but we'll have these sparks and then we'll just like double down the ones that are really resonating in the same way we have with the boring campaign, and therefore you kind of mitigate that risk. Um. So I think that's how we're thinking about it, and I think it's much more successful, definitely. And I think the key element that was...

...missing was the point of view, the strong point of view in the first place. And I think if you start with that, then greating the content becomes much easier, um, as opposed to just trying to come up with it what did I always call them themes? So I hope that answers it. Um. Okay, I think we've we've done all the questions. Now we've worked out jobs that's going to have to be delivered through LinkedIn and for everyone else if you is on Facebook in the docs section. So amazing. Thanks guys for another great episode, and thank you everyone for listening and probably see you in the new year. Now. Yeah, can you say very Christmas? Yea early, you know, I feel like just a great Christmas everyone,.

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